[Public politics]congress members resigning

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[Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-27, 19:12

For what party did Watrogasac Nesa run?

Resigning a day after the elections isn't really done...
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Ernest Bogdansson on 2010-11-27, 19:22

I think he wanted only congress medal Neutral
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by M.Leviathin on 2010-11-27, 19:24

Also to accept the citizenship request of one of his friends.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-27, 20:24

He was in Free Belgium. It may be that he has decided to pursue the military track in The Syndicate http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/we-contiunues--1586471/1/20; however, I agree this was not a cool thing to do.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Glenn Wauters on 2010-11-27, 22:11

Agree on that, a simple medal whore
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by NLSP on 2010-11-27, 23:21

Is there actually a way that we can act against such behaviour?
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-27, 23:26

Unfortunately, no. The small active community in eBelgium makes it an easy target for medal whores. We have had some that were elected for months, and no amount of publicity got them out of office.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Sammy Tanghe on 2010-11-27, 23:35

the only way to perhaps would be to eliminate 2 parties and have blockers at the rdy to make PP able to eliminate unwanted people running.

Not rlly something potentially happening soon ...
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 03:04

Did he donate his medal or is this only a problem when members of the BCP don't do that?
Activity isn't important at all. Gold is what we want!
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-28, 03:21

No, I don't think he did donate his medal, and yes, this is a problem; however, he appears to be out of our sphere of influence at the moment.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 04:22

So what do we want?
Gold or activity?
Cause if I am remembering right only a fraction of those who donated gold last term where active on the forum. How many of the BfB where active on the forum the last month? If I am not mistaken it was the BfB top who had most problems in the BCP not donating. Again what is most important. Gold or activity?

So again I ask what do we want. Gold or activity?
And no both is not a good answer.
What do we want most. Gold or activity?


Last edited by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 04:27; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-28, 04:27

Both. Exclamation
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 04:28

edited Rolling Eyes

Both is NOT a good answer! Where are our priorities?
I am not the one who shouted fire last term!
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-28, 04:31

It is a false dichotomy, A Vegan. Both is a perfectly valid answer. Smile If, however, you want to protest this action, which I believe you are perfectly right in doing, follow the link I posted in this thread, and add your comments to mine.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 04:52

No I am asking what is most important. Once gold or activity?
Simple question I would think...
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-28, 05:00

Rather like asking which is more important, your father or your mother, isn't it?
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 05:02

I don't think so. Neither my father or my mother will be remembered for their gold but for their activity! Anything else is just sad...
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-28, 05:15

Smile Well, if you're going to use that argument, I don't suppose I will be remembered in this game for my gold, although I hope I have made some friends with my activity. That doesn't mean it is unimportant for me to contribute my gold, however.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 05:18

I don't say it is unimportant. Just wondering what is MOST important...
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Aldous Zamiatin on 2010-11-28, 06:22

World peace Razz

A Vegan, one really shouldn't exclude the other, as Maryam said. I could play the devil's advocate here and say that donating your gold at least gives some tangible result (= extra gold in the treasury), but with activity that isn't always the case. For example, I could be hyperactive but totally unproductive, and if on top of that I wouldn't donate my Congress gold, then at the end of the month my term wouldn't have ment a thing for eBelgium. Not every idea/proposal/project is a good one. So sometimes, theoretically, gold could be worth more than activity Razz
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 06:25

I can only talk about myself.
But I prefer activity (even if it is without a point) than a one time donation.

It's great to have gold but if you don't have anyone to play with that gold is pretty useless.

So for me activity rules. And the donation is an extra bonus.
I prefer to live in a poor country than a 1 person's country.
Alone is alone
The more soles the more fun!
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Aldous Zamiatin on 2010-11-28, 06:45

Agreed, but sometimes one active guy can do more than five other "active" guys. And what if those good for nothing, but "active" people were very annoying? Maybe you would wish that you lived in a 1 man country then Razz

For every black&white situation another black&white situation can be imagined (this could turn into a scholastic style hypothetical debate very easily), so it's not always the best way to judge our grey scaled reality Wink
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 06:51

I prefer an annoying "active" than plain silence.
But maybe that is because I am an annoying person Wink
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-28, 06:56

Ah, but we love you even when you're annoying. Wink However, I think Aldous is correct that not all activity has equal value, and also I would like to point out that some people who may appear inactive are nevertheless informed and will appear when they have something to say. As our admins have noted already, having a lot of posts does not necessarily mean you are contributing a lot.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Manong Z on 2010-11-28, 06:56

aVegan wrote:No I am asking what is most important. Once gold or activity?
Simple question I would think...

Gold (eventually), for it will depend on what kind of activity. What's the use of an active yet dumb Congressman (or a puppet of some PTO group)? And to be honest, there are a lot of people who can fill in anyone's shoes.

And I agree with Maryam and Aldous. It's not just black and white, there's a lot of grey in everything... or ever multicolors... whichever.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 07:07

MaryamQ wrote:Ah, but we love you even when you're annoying. Wink However, I think Aldous is correct that not all activity has equal value, and also I would like to point out that some people who may appear inactive are nevertheless informed and will appear when they have something to say. As our admins have noted already, having a lot of posts does not necessarily mean you are contributing a lot.

1 post (if we are lucky) a term means you are contributing ZERO.
Why is everyone judged on the amount of gold they donate but it seems nobody cares about the activity.

I say the activity is the most important part of being congress member. And I suggest we do research about this. Lets start with checking how many past congress members have made more than 1 post on the forum during their term. With an extra list of those who have made ZERO posts.

I have kept on playing this game because of the community and not because our country has a lot of gold. If so eBelgium would be empty.
It's the forum that makes the game. If a congress member doesn't appear there he is useless.

It's NOT about the gold but about the COMMUNITY. So clearly activity is the MOST IMPORTANT.
Saying different is just plain s***.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Aldous Zamiatin on 2010-11-28, 07:20

But contributing Congress gold is also contributing to the community, just like being constructively active is a contribution. And nothing stops anyone to be active AND donate that gold bonus to maximize their contribution to the community - it's not an either-or situation Wink No one says that those silent guys (the month after month zero posters) are great, or better than those who are active but don't want to share their bonus. It's already some achievement that some of them donate their Congress gold, but that doesn't mean they're respected and considered as good Congressmen. I personally wouldn't endorse them, for example Wink
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Manong Z on 2010-11-28, 07:22

aVegan wrote:
MaryamQ wrote:Ah, but we love you even when you're annoying. Wink However, I think Aldous is correct that not all activity has equal value, and also I would like to point out that some people who may appear inactive are nevertheless informed and will appear when they have something to say. As our admins have noted already, having a lot of posts does not necessarily mean you are contributing a lot.

1 post (if we are lucky) a term means you are contributing ZERO.
Why is everyone judged on the amount of gold they donate but it seems nobody cares about the activity.

I say the activity is the most important part of being congress member. And I suggest we do research about this. Lets start with checking how many past congress members have made more than 1 post on the forum during their term. With an extra list of those who have made ZERO posts.

I have kept on playing this game because of the community and not because our country has a lot of gold. If so eBelgium would be empty.
It's the forum that makes the game. If a congress member doesn't appear there he is useless.

It's NOT about the gold but about the COMMUNITY. So clearly activity is the MOST IMPORTANT.
Saying different is just plain s***.

I knew a few Congress Members before who contributed in public discussions in newspapers but rarely post in the forum. They were very involved and they would check discussions first before voting. However, I don't know the Congress Members these days... so you have a point.

And, no, saying different is not plain stupid. Being adamant on something without considering other things is plain stupid. There's always more to everything and there are so much factors involving activity that can outweigh its importance compared to gold and VICE VERSA (Aldous mentioned some few pointers in the above post).
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 07:29

Never said it was an either-or situation.
In the end it comes to what is important. Do we judge a person (or group like last month) because he donates gold or because he is active.

If we judge him on his donations we should also judge about his activity.

Still think that everyone should apologize to the BCP for last months witch hunt. All BCP members where active what couldn't be said by most of the other parties. Specially the party that shouted the loudest, being the BfB.
ThomasRed are you going to apologize or are you prepared to accuse your own party?

Lets not forget that the BCP congress gold was used for eBelgium and didn't end in anyones pocket. As a bonus you got ACTIVE congress members. ALL BCP members are and have been active on the forum.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Manong Z on 2010-11-28, 07:32

aVegan wrote:Never said it was an either-or situation.
In the end it comes to what is important. Do we judge a person (or group like last month) because he donates gold or because he is active.

If we judge him on his donations we should also judge about his activity.

Still think that everyone should apologize to the BCP for last months witch hunt. All BCP members where active what couldn't be said by most of the other parties. Specially the party that shouted the loudest, being the BfB.
ThomasRed are you going to apologize or are you prepared to accuse your own party?

Lets not forget that the BCP congress gold was used for eBelgium and didn't end in anyones pocket. As a bonus you got ACTIVE congress members. ALL BCP members are and have been active on the forum.

Politics, my friend, it happens all the time. Sad

edit: now I just realized why it was so odd with the Smile instead of the one right now: Sad
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by M.Leviathin on 2010-11-28, 07:39

I don't have to apologize. C:
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by aVegan on 2010-11-28, 07:45

If you mean that dirty politics are the rule that is pretty sad.
I hope those who pointed the finger can admit their mistake or at least make similar statements to those who aren't active. It's pretty hypocrite to forget about the active duties of a congress member and only focus on the gold.

So again I demand apologizes! And I don't think that is asking to much.

ps: @M.Leviathin you don't have anything to apologize for. You where one of the few who didn't take part in this dirty history of eBelgium
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by M.Leviathin on 2010-11-28, 07:55

I remember seeing that debate go on and me thinking to myself "Do I really want to take a part in this? No. Not really."

I don't think that's anything to be proud of, but I was amazed at how fast you all were replying. TBH, I think I leaned towards your side during the debate. Your attitude during it wasn't as alluring, however.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Manong Z on 2010-11-28, 18:53

aVegan wrote:If you mean that dirty politics are the rule that is pretty sad.
I hope those who pointed the finger can admit their mistake or at least make similar statements to those who aren't active. It's pretty hypocrite to forget about the active duties of a congress member and only focus on the gold.

So again I demand apologizes! And I don't think that is asking to much.

ps: @M.Leviathin you don't have anything to apologize for. You where one of the few who didn't take part in this dirty history of eBelgium

Politics = war. A war of wit and stratagems.

And if Leviathin ever truly participated, I'd reckon he'd finally be President. Razz
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Medrolke on 2010-11-28, 19:22

"Do I really want to take a part in this? No. Not really."

That's kinda how I felt when I saw this topic's name and who made it.

Now I read it, I too must lean towards aVegan's side (having used a similar argument in a congress campaign when I was FB's President).

The thing is, we're a small country, people get elected for a single vote here. The majority of these people don't have the time to be as active as us but they do what they can by donating their gold and voting on in-game proposals.

They do the best they can with their congress seats so, while I'd rather have an active congressmember instead, I can't really complain. And besides, the BfB have no controll over who gets their nominations (heck, even US parties can't do that without orginized blockers) so they don't really have anything to apoligize for.

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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by NLSP on 2010-11-28, 21:36

I have stayed out of this, because I wasn't active during the whole discussion about the gold donations (but I have of course an opinion about it)
But I think that is the annoying thing, last month there was a anti BCP-mood hanging around, and it was totally not done what they did according to the most of the persons who ventilated an opinion.
And now there is a congress member that also doesn't donate his gold, does nothing for eBelgium and quit after one day
and then you get almost no reaction about it

It is imho then normal that you ask yourself there was such a fuzz about the BCP and the reactions were much harder then they are here, was it then worse wat the BCP did?
Is it better to just get a seat in congress and resign, keep the money for yourself, then be active do the best for eBelgium and for one time don't give your medal gold to the NBB, but give it to the BCP that tries to help the country with it?
And I think that if you are honest to yourself, you have to admit that the actions of the BCP are not that worse as that of the quitted congressmember and that in relation with that there was reactions that were over the normal
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-28, 21:45

I understand you think the BCP was treated unfairly. In a way, I think this is because the BCP is active enough to be worth discussing our feelings with. That may seem unfair, but it means that we recognize the good in the BCP and want it to be better. As for this resigned Congressman, I did react to the link I posted earlier in this thread, and invited others to do the same. Nobody is condoning what he did, but to complain about it here will not affect him or his supporters in any way.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by ThomasRED on 2010-11-28, 22:45

A good solution would be to be rewarded of the congress medal at the end of the congress term, so if you resign before the 30th day, you won't get the medal. This solution have been submitted to the admins... Who knows what will happen ?

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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Medrolke on 2010-11-28, 23:31

I'd rather award it for voting in a certain amount of proposals or something. Otherwise active people who left for valid reasons (like me, twice) wouldn't get anything.

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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by ThomasRED on 2010-11-28, 23:35

"valid reasons" are quite subjective, and can't be officialy set by admins... So it's a little difficult... And will it will be more efficient ? In most cases, when a congressmen resign, he proposed first his two proposals and vote them... and anybody could just vote because there is a button vote, without being active in debate etc...

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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by MaryamQ on 2010-11-28, 23:51

It might be possible to publish a roll of honor/roll of shame at the end of a congressional term to help voters make their decision, but again, that would require clear criteria that we could agree on, and additionally, with some people getting into Congress on one vote here, it might not have any significant effect on the elections.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by NLSP on 2010-11-29, 00:48

It will make a difference in Brussels,
it can make a difference maybe in the 2 other regions

Personally, I think that it isn't a bad idea as long that the requirements to be on the roll of honor are ridiculous high
You can be a good congressman without being every day on the forum, or proposing 15 things
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Aldous Zamiatin on 2010-11-29, 03:50

NLSP wrote:I have stayed out of this, because I wasn't active during the whole discussion about the gold donations (but I have of course an opinion about it)
But I think that is the annoying thing, last month there was a anti BCP-mood hanging around, and it was totally not done what they did according to the most of the persons who ventilated an opinion.
And now there is a congress member that also doesn't donate his gold, does nothing for eBelgium and quit after one day
and then you get almost no reaction about it

It is imho then normal that you ask yourself there was such a fuzz about the BCP and the reactions were much harder then they are here, was it then worse wat the BCP did?
Is it better to just get a seat in congress and resign, keep the money for yourself, then be active do the best for eBelgium and for one time don't give your medal gold to the NBB, but give it to the BCP that tries to help the country with it?
And I think that if you are honest to yourself, you have to admit that the actions of the BCP are not that worse as that of the quitted congressmember and that in relation with that there was reactions that were over the normal
People have commented and disapproved the actions of that Congressman. Maybe not that elaborate, but still, they did. The reason they weren't so loud about it was because it was absolutely useless - everyone knows that this guy didn't care about eBelgium and no one really cared for him either, and it is very likely that we won't ever hear anything from him ever again. But if he would return and try to run for Congress again, you would definitly see people react against him and flud every of his statements with warnings about his unreliability.

As to the gold issue, I thought we've said everything there was to say, but once again, I want to remind why I disapprove Congress members who refuse to donate their gold - if everyone will refuse, we simply won't have the funds for a new MPP anymore, as Congress Medal gold is our most important source of national income. And if a party (I don't care which one) as a whole does it, but still acknowledges that donating is important and expects others to continue donating, then something is wrong there and "hypocracy" might be an apropriate key word there too. Plus, CM gold donations to the NBB-BNB have a proven positive effect in serving the interests of eBelgium, being our MPPs that provide us with regular fights and experience for our citizens. CM gold that is used for personal projects in the interests of eBelgium still has to prove its positive effects - one month later the grain commune still hasn't succeeded in dropping the grain price, for example. Personal projects are very much needed, but should probably best be funded with personal money. I have some personal projects too, but you don't see me keeping the gold Wink

This only to remind once again why donating gold is important (and not simply a "bribe"), but I don't want to say in any way that those who did donate but didn't do anything else are good Congress members.
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Mikhail Alexander on 2010-11-29, 08:16

We had an idea in Switzerland, that you don't get a congress medal until you have completed your entire term, used all your proposals and citizenship passes and at least voted in 5 proposals. This would help making sure that the country gets important people who actually want to help!
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Glenn Wauters on 2010-11-29, 13:06

Rowan Quigley wrote:We had an idea in Switzerland, that you don't get a congress medal until you have completed your entire term, used all your proposals and citizenship passes and at least voted in 5 proposals. This would help making sure that the country gets important people who actually want to help!

The citizenship pass is a bad idea
Citizenship passes, if nobody but PTOers apply for citizenship you would have to choose between medal or country


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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by ThomasRED on 2010-11-29, 15:17

NLSP wrote:
And now there is a congress member that also doesn't donate his gold, does nothing for eBelgium and quit after one day
and then you get almost no reaction about it

Indeed, but it's not a surprise for me that this guys left the congress. The guy is a foreigner, part of the serbian army, a medal hunter, is not registered on our forum, don't have any belgians like friends, and it's the first time he came to eBelgium... It's not the same situation if you ask me... And it's not the same debate. But i'm glad to see the nice level of commitment of ours congressmembers in general !

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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Glenn Wauters on 2010-11-29, 15:23

Yeah, and the idiot tries to launch a MM Project in Belgium XD
With 20 subs XD

I said what I wanna say against him, hm, actually not complete
Lets write another comment with my entire thoughts about him Mad
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by Bert_en_Ernie on 2010-11-29, 15:24

go go Glenn!!
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by NLSP on 2010-11-29, 15:46

Glenn Wauters wrote:Yeah, and the idiot tries to launch a MM Project in Belgium XD
With 20 subs XD

I said what I wanna say against him, hm, actually not complete
Lets write another comment with my entire thoughts about him Mad
I will read it with pleasure Smile
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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

Post by ThomasRED on 2010-11-29, 20:59

aVegan wrote:For what party did Watrogasac Nesa run?

Resigning a day after the elections isn't really done...

I have contacted the Serbian MoFA and i have talked with him about this issue, as Watrogasac Nesa and Tijana11 are serbian soldiers... In fact, they are members of paramilitary group, but they will be contacted by their officials to give explanations... More news in the next days...

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Re: [Public politics]congress members resigning

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