All TOgether

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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-05-13, 13:59

Also, I'd like to add that for ppl who think that New citizens who register won't find eBelgium: "eBelgiums" remains in the list of countries when you register, as well as all our regions. They only get a "*" after them referring that they are occupied by another nation. When these new citizens join, they automatically gain eUK citizenship.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by ThomasRED on 2011-05-13, 14:33

shadowukcs wrote:Also, I'd like to add that for ppl who think that New citizens who register won't find eBelgium: "eBelgiums" remains in the list of countries when you register, as well as all our regions. They only get a "*" after them referring that they are occupied by another nation. When these new citizens join, they automatically gain eUK citizenship.

And 80% will stop to play because they will see that their country is occupied by a UK, 10% will play as 2 clickers with no interests, and 10% will do what they can for the independance of eBE.

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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-05-13, 14:51

ThomasRED wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Also, I'd like to add that for ppl who think that New citizens who register won't find eBelgium: "eBelgiums" remains in the list of countries when you register, as well as all our regions. They only get a "*" after them referring that they are occupied by another nation. When these new citizens join, they automatically gain eUK citizenship.

And 80% will stop to play because they will see that their country is occupied by a UK, 10% will play as 2 clickers with no interests, and 10% will do what they can for the independance of eBE.

they won't. in the contrary. Many will join thinking they can fight to freed their country.


And besides, if you would merge with eNL, they'd see the same message.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by ThomasRED on 2011-05-13, 15:19

If we merge with NL, it's under BE flag, and it will be only SouthNL in a first time i guess. We can also imagine a deal with the germans to take NRW (when i was president i had a deal with them to loan for free this region, it's not fictionnal).

BE+SouthNL+NRW. Not a bad option in my opinion...

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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-05-13, 15:35

ThomasRED wrote:If we merge with NL, it's under BE flag, and it will be only SouthNL in a first time i guess. We can also imagine a deal with the germans to take NRW (when i was president i had a deal with them to loan for free this region, it's not fictionnal).

BE+SouthNL+NRW. Not a bad option in my opinion...



You can't merge with the dutch under Belgian flag because

A) they don't want to
B) it would be extremely inefficient as they are being taken over more than they actually exist.
C) they barely provide a bonus
D) We wouldn't have the military strength to protect their regions from RW's.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Jofroi on 2011-05-13, 15:43

Well, if they RW it. We NE them and it provide us a pretty nice bonus ^^.

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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-05-13, 15:57

Jofroi wrote:Well, if they RW it. We NE them and it provide us a pretty nice bonus ^^.


and what if ePL continues to take them over like they do now?

plus, if you NE them, you bring them back in and they RW 24 hours later, you can't NE them anymore so you'll either have to wait 7 days or pay the cost of a DoW (which frankly we can't afford much)
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Xgentis Lempereur on 2011-05-13, 16:06

If you want bonus that badly merge with Poland. They have all existing ressources except ruber. Rolling Eyes
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Re: All TOgether

Post by ThomasRED on 2011-05-13, 16:10

shadowukcs wrote:
plus, if you NE them, you bring them back in and they RW 24 hours later, you can't NE them anymore so you'll either have to wait 7 days or pay the cost of a DoW (which frankly we can't afford much)

Is this guy the oldest belgian erep player ? well, you have saw so many differents rules that it hard to know what rules are the good ones i guess...

"if you NE them, you bring them back in" : you can't NE them if they are not back on the map already, RW have to come first, and then the NE.

"and they RW 24 hours later, you can't NE them anymore so you'll either have to wait 7 days" : so i imagine you want to say that if we take SouthNL thanks to a NE, that they RW South NL from eBE 1 day after, we won't be able to NE them again ? Of course we we can, as the previous NE will have been closed as NL will have been wiped of the map. The 7 day delay is only for changing a NE or unset a NE.

"or pay the cost of a DoW (which frankly we can't afford much)" : brrrr, a scary argument to scare us, we don't have the money ! a DoW will be useless, (and for information cost around 230g).

Try to make valid points for your proposal, the merge with UK, instead of bashing the others' proposal with false arguments, the debate will be more constructive ! ;-)

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Re: All TOgether

Post by Gibberish45 on 2011-05-13, 17:30

If the entire point of considering a merger is to gain the raw bonus why would we consider a country with less bonus?

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Re: All TOgether

Post by Xgentis Lempereur on 2011-05-13, 17:34

This change is to encourage more war and to sell more gold.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Chris Stanwick on 2011-05-13, 19:29

Rather than argue back and forth about the options, let's just do a poll to find out what people actually think.

http://www.erepbelgium.com/t3283-merger-poll
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Gibberish45 on 2011-05-13, 22:14

Xgentis Lempereur wrote:This change is to encourage more war and to sell more gold.

That's not how I understood it. Maybe we should agree upon the reason for a merger before deciding which country would be best.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Olv007 on 2011-05-13, 23:34

The most important thing I think to merge is to be stronger economically and military. The important raw production bonuses will be so more profitable for other countries (where the bonus is 100%) that even with an import tax of 99% we, the eBelgian managers, will not be able to make any profits. We will have to lower the wages, making people leave our country to gain more money somewhere else.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Mike Wooldridge on 2011-05-13, 23:41

But wouldn't it be more fun to march into eNL , and assimilate them into a Greater eBelgium Wink
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Olv007 on 2011-05-14, 00:09

Of course Mike. That we can do for the fun part.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Xgentis Lempereur on 2011-05-14, 00:42

Then we should consider additional mpp to cary out that expention.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Jofroi on 2011-05-14, 07:31

Olv007 wrote:The most important thing I think to merge is to be stronger economically and military. The important raw production bonuses will be so more profitable for other countries (where the bonus is 100%) that even with an import tax of 99% we, the eBelgian managers, will not be able to make any profits. We will have to lower the wages, making people leave our country to gain more money somewhere else.

Actually, this is wrong because we have 20-40% production boost. But it is true that the buying power will be low whatever we does.

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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-05-14, 11:19

ThomasRED wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:
plus, if you NE them, you bring them back in and they RW 24 hours later, you can't NE them anymore so you'll either have to wait 7 days or pay the cost of a DoW (which frankly we can't afford much)

Is this guy the oldest belgian erep player ? well, you have saw so many differents rules that it hard to know what rules are the good ones i guess...

"if you NE them, you bring them back in" : you can't NE them if they are not back on the map already, RW have to come first, and then the NE.

"and they RW 24 hours later, you can't NE them anymore so you'll either have to wait 7 days" : so i imagine you want to say that if we take SouthNL thanks to a NE, that they RW South NL from eBE 1 day after, we won't be able to NE them again ? Of course we we can, as the previous NE will have been closed as NL will have been wiped of the map. The 7 day delay is only for changing a NE or unset a NE.

"or pay the cost of a DoW (which frankly we can't afford much)" : brrrr, a scary argument to scare us, we don't have the money ! a DoW will be useless, (and for information cost around 230g).

Try to make valid points for your proposal, the merge with UK, instead of bashing the others' proposal with false arguments, the debate will be more constructive ! ;-)

study


you do realise that in this entire debate, you're the one who's been provocing personal attacks right?


besides, read my post again coz you don't seem to have understood it properly. Cba to explain it again.

Gibberish45 wrote:If the entire point of considering a merger is to gain the raw bonus why would we consider a country with less bonus?


exactly

You have to take both language and resources in consideration. If you do that, the most rational and logic choice is eUK. simple as that.

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Re: All TOgether

Post by Sir Humphrey Appleby on 2011-05-14, 13:18

I’m sorry for the invasion of yet another Brit, but as some of you are aware – he has made a similar discussion on our forums as well >_>.

One of the main things that has struck me throughout the entirety of this thread was the effort put into establishing ‘wants’ without really focussing on how to achieve reasonable objectives. I’ve seen a lot of assumptions here being made on how the eUK will treat its partner, and quite frankly, it’s very uncreative.

I am pretty much a permanent worker in our Ministry of Home Affairs, having run it and set up a few things there in the past. I also know it is quite capable with your support of broadcasting eBE articles to your part of the population and sending help to your citizens that need to heal up. I’ve worked as the Minister for Culture once, and I’m sure the current team here can get started on Belgium-themed weeks for games, entertainment and prizes.

The MOD will happily channel your armed forces/militias into wherever you want to go; Britain has a thriving armed forces and we are starting to make noticeable impacts on very important battles. The UKSF is frequently one of the hardest hitting military units in the world. With the help of eBE soldiers, we could do even more damage; especially with the economic benefits that would come from it.

The fact remains that regardless of who you decide to merge with, staying as a solitary country will logically lead to a complete economic disaster. With Louth, we’re looking at an even bigger productivity bonus. On top of that, the financial power of the eUK is enough to easily fund a campaign and series of defensive measures should the time call for it. Our reserves are completely bonkers. Defending your regions as part of a merger treaty obligation should be very little hassle.

Obviously, I’m completely biased towards merging with the eUK – but I thought I’d make a small contribution anyway :p.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by ThomasRED on 2011-05-14, 15:03

shadowukcs wrote:
you do realise that in this entire debate, you're the one who's been provocing personal attacks right?

Excuse me i didn't wanted to hurt you... Sad

The problem is that when you post something, with informations on foreign affairs, game mechanics, etc..., people believe what you write, because you're an experienced player, the oldest belgian player, and in the last days, you lie 2-3 times, or made mistakes (never been pro merger, pro merger, false NE game mechanics, etc...), and it can be a problem for the youngest citizens... Just try to check your informations before to post them and to only tell the truth and everything will be perfect ! Once again, my bad if i hurted you...

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Re: All TOgether

Post by NicknameFromRonny on 2011-05-14, 16:53

I'ld vote for a law that forbides ThomasRed and Shadowukcs to quote eachother.

Problem is, imho, what you're looking for in the game. What do you want? Be richer then the others? Part of a stronger nation? Or do you get a good feeling out of keeping a small but interesting boat floating? Or do you just want a community that makes you feel at home? Or ...
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Glenn Wauters on 2011-05-14, 19:44

eUK = backstabbing allies since day 0

A merge with the UK is not an option, and if it is and we do merge (voluntarily) I will be happy to get out of here as fast as possible
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Sir Humphrey Appleby on 2011-05-14, 23:08

I'm really sorry you see us as such.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by jamster737 on 2011-05-14, 23:20

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote:I'm really sorry you see us as such.
The uk is fine when you are part of the country but the matter at hand is we want to keep our independence just as any other country would in our position or atleast merge with a country that we chose that will allow us to keep some of our identity
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Re: All TOgether

Post by George Norfolk on 2011-05-15, 14:19

Glenn Wauters wrote:eUK = backstabbing allies since day 0
The only countries we ever backstabbed were Canada and the USA in the North American invasion of WWIII. That was once in well over 3 years of our history - hardly a bad record, especially in comparison to the rest of the eWorld. Only an idiot would still think of us as backstabbers, over 90% of our population aren't even old enough to remember that.

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Re: All TOgether

Post by Chris Stanwick on 2011-05-15, 17:49

George Norfolk wrote:
Glenn Wauters wrote:eUK = backstabbing allies since day 0
The only countries we ever backstabbed were Canada and the USA in the North American invasion of WWIII. That was once in well over 3 years of our history - hardly a bad record, especially in comparison to the rest of the eWorld. Only an idiot would still think of us as backstabbers, over 90% of our population aren't even old enough to remember that.

I remember it well, I was on the receiving end - a member of the US Cabinet at the time. Despite that, I have voted for merging with the UK if possible.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Glenn Wauters on 2011-05-15, 18:22

George Norfolk wrote:
Glenn Wauters wrote:eUK = backstabbing allies since day 0
The only countries we ever backstabbed were Canada and the USA in the North American invasion of WWIII. That was once in well over 3 years of our history - hardly a bad record, especially in comparison to the rest of the eWorld. Only an idiot would still think of us as backstabbers, over 90% of our population aren't even old enough to remember that.

Or when you tried to invade Ireland when your allies needed you, just recently
Or when you tried to invade Belgium when your allies needed you
Or when Phoenix HQ (lead by an english guy I believe back then) decided to sacrifice an ally for the defence of London
...
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Mike Wooldridge on 2011-05-16, 02:09

Glenn Wauters wrote:
George Norfolk wrote:
Glenn Wauters wrote:eUK = backstabbing allies since day 0
The only countries we ever backstabbed were Canada and the USA in the North American invasion of WWIII. That was once in well over 3 years of our history - hardly a bad record, especially in comparison to the rest of the eWorld. Only an idiot would still think of us as backstabbers, over 90% of our population aren't even old enough to remember that.

Or when you tried to invade Ireland when your allies needed you, just recently
Or when you tried to invade Belgium when your allies needed you
Or when Phoenix HQ (lead by an english guy I believe back then) decided to sacrifice an ally for the defence of London
...

Should have put eBelgium in bold letters Wink
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Re: All TOgether

Post by M.Leviathin on 2011-05-16, 03:00

The eUK is synonymous with the definition of backstabbers in most countries' eyes. That and they're horrible allies.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Tomazim on 2011-06-08, 04:59

Care to substantiate that rather than spewing out old and illogical rhetoric?

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Re: All TOgether

Post by Balkan on 2011-06-08, 07:32

M.Leviathin wrote:The eUK is synonymous with the definition of backstabbers in most countries' eyes. That and they're horrible allies.
Hush you bydlo.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-06-08, 09:30

Tomazim wrote:Care to substantiate that rather than spewing out old and illogical rhetoric?

I don't think they're backstabbers (anymore). I do however think they have serious issue's with their FA policy and their congress that isn't really improving their reputation in eWorld.


Don't get me wrong tho, I'm still very much pro this sort of merger, imo it would be beneficial for all, but on the other hand I don't think most eBE citizens are ready for it.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-06-10, 10:50

With these new changes, the nessecity for a merge has increased dramatically


http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/information-about-the-new-updates-in-erepublik--1794893/1/20


Here's a graph with the productivity




EDIT: for those who do not know: currently our weapons and WRM bonus is 20% and our food/FRM bonus is 40%.

A merge with eUK would give us a 60% WRM/weapons - 60% FRM/Food* bonus (http://ebelgium.forumotion.net/t3235-all-together#62622 )


*could be extended to 80%
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Glenn Wauters on 2011-06-10, 11:15

The +100 building gives old high economical players a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge advantage that totally isnt fair to other players
Especially when going for BH or for simply ranking up
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Jofroi on 2011-06-10, 12:37

Indeed, that's unfair. Welcome in eRep^^ (but I agree that this is severily unfair).

Unless, people can still deblock it while reaching 500K production.

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Re: All TOgether

Post by Glenn Wauters on 2011-06-10, 13:09

Jofroi wrote:Indeed, that's unfair. Welcome in eRep^^ (but I agree that this is severily unfair).

Unless, people can still deblock it while reaching 500K production.

How do you mean?
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Jofroi on 2011-06-10, 13:13

Well, if people can still deblock this building in the future, that's no more unfair.

But I doubt that'll be the case.

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Re: All TOgether

Post by ThomasRED on 2011-06-10, 14:02

shadowukcs wrote:With these new changes, the nessecity for a merge has increased dramatically
shadowukcs wrote:EDIT: for those who do not know: currently our weapons and WRM bonus is 20% and our food/FRM bonus is 40%.

A merge with eUK would give us a 60% WRM/weapons - 60% FRM/Food* bonus (http://www.erepbelgium.com/t3235-all-together#62622 )

*could be extended to 80%
So in fact nothing changed with the last update ? It stay the same situation since the previous economical update... But it "has increased dramatically" the need of a merge ? Stop propaganda please ;-)

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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-06-10, 14:20

ThomasRED wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:With these new changes, the nessecity for a merge has increased dramatically
shadowukcs wrote:EDIT: for those who do not know: currently our weapons and WRM bonus is 20% and our food/FRM bonus is 40%.

A merge with eUK would give us a 60% WRM/weapons - 60% FRM/Food* bonus (http://www.erepbelgium.com/t3235-all-together#62622 )

*could be extended to 80%
So in fact nothing changed with the last update ? It stay the same situation since the previous economical update... But it "has increased dramatically" the need of a merge ? Stop propaganda please ;-)


Not exactly Thomared. A lot has changed and it isn't propaganda. In the past, the bonus was calculated in the production formula and came down to "only" 25% in reality. Now it isn't. The formula has been simplified drastically, everyone's production has been upped to that of a (former) lvl 15 worker so the difference between us and ePL today and say us and ePL yesterday has been dramatically changed.


Try reading what I said first before calling everything "propaganda" first. For a country like eBelgium, the difference in total production is massive.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by ThomasRED on 2011-06-10, 14:23

It was already the case before, and it's still the case for a lot of countries too...
But i get your point, thanks for explaining your mind... ;-)

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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-06-10, 14:24

ThomasRED wrote:It was already the case before, and it's still the case for a lot of countries too...
But i get your point, thanks for explaining your mind... ;-)


It wasn't the case before. In the past we had a difference of 25% with eUSA

Now we have a difference of 80% in weapons with eUSA.

Big difference.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by ThomasRED on 2011-06-10, 14:36

Are we gonna see 4 countries in the eWorld, one asian country, one european country, one latin american country, and north american country ? (answer is no ^^)

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Re: All TOgether

Post by Ward De Bever on 2011-06-10, 14:49

Indeed we're going from a 19.4% to a 33.3-40% disadvantage compared to Poland. The call for a merger becomes stronger, but not irresistible imo.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Bert_en_Ernie on 2011-06-10, 15:10

As long as the import taxes remains in place it is workable without the bonus. I'm not prepared to give up Belgium for some bonus.
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Re: All TOgether

Post by Tomazim on 2011-06-10, 17:07

ThomasRED wrote:Are we gonna see 4 countries in the eWorld, one asian country, one european country, one latin american country, and north american country ? (answer is no ^^)

That is poor logic.

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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-06-10, 17:25

Tomazim wrote:
ThomasRED wrote:Are we gonna see 4 countries in the eWorld, one asian country, one european country, one latin american country, and north american country ? (answer is no ^^)

That is poor logic.


+1

He's up for merging with eNL (who offer us nearly nothing, can't defend their own regions, get attacked all the time and make a hobby out of being Poland's bitch) but when some one suggest merging with eUK, then all of the sudden the world would collapse
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Re: All TOgether

Post by ThomasRED on 2011-06-10, 17:44

Because my choice is made on community reasons, not on economic reasons only...
(and my opinions can change with a good debate ;-) )

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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-06-10, 18:56

ThomasRED wrote:Because my choice is made on community reasons, not on economic reasons only...
(and my opinions can change with a good debate ;-) )

>implying the dutch have a warm, open and friendly community.


The don't even open their forum to outsides (in contrary to eUK)
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Re: All TOgether

Post by shadowukcs on 2011-06-10, 19:24

Also

ThomasRED wrote:Because my choice is made on community reasons, not on economic reasons only...
(and my opinions can change with a good debate ;-) )

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Re: All TOgether

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