open letter to shadowukcs

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open letter to shadowukcs

Post by tecuvo on 2012-02-16, 19:19


Hi commander

The recent situation in BAF is not what it should be.
We're just fighting at random battles to complete the DO and there is no fun anymore in BAF.
Their is no real reason to fight for the countries we're fighting for, except that we share a MPP, but they are no real allies.
Besides that it isn't certain if we are a national army or a private MU, owned by you, and this is not an option for us.
So we decided it's time to act and to determine our own future.

We all share the opinion that the problem of BAF is caused by many things and many people, and that it started when betafoxtrot ruined BAF. Things are better now, thanks to you, but there is still a long way to go.
We believe that it's not only the task of the government to solve our problems but that they should help us to bring back our former glory. They should use the army to improve relations with other nations and that requires a good co-operation between BAF command and government. Due to both sides, this is rather difficult right now.

Therefore we ask you to step aside and appoint the general, chosen by HC, as commander of the Belgian Armed Forces.

Best regards

tecuvo
ahakas
Xsile
Olv007
Jofroi
El1temkd
cotarius

i wanted to post this at the army announcements topic, but i can't post it in there
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by M.Leviathin on 2012-02-16, 19:23

I don't see how fighting for these countries isn't fun anymore is shadow's fault. I mean, Belgium has been doing nothing for months and it will continue to do nothing for months. We are neutral, so there are no countries we'll fight for as allies and others as enemies. So, if you want excitement and purpose, the real problem isn't that shadow is now the owner of the BAF, but our neutrality is.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Fhaemita Malodorous on 2012-02-16, 19:36

M.Leviathin wrote:I don't see how fighting for these countries isn't fun anymore is shadow's fault. I mean, Belgium has been doing nothing for months and it will continue to do nothing for months. We are neutral, so there are no countries we'll fight for as allies and others as enemies. So, if you want excitement and purpose, the real problem isn't that shadow is now the owner of the BAF, but our neutrality is.

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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Jonathan Clay on 2012-02-16, 19:39

That's kind of the idea of a neutral army: fighting in random battles if you choose battles you're not really neutral
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Mudduck95 on 2012-02-16, 20:31

Nice letter tecuvo.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Olv007 on 2012-02-16, 20:37

BAF was a neutral army before but all the old soldiers agree that it was more fun during that time (before Beta). There was more action and with that we had more activity.

We are just asking for a real army, with real orders, organized battles, stats, ranks and medals maybe... is that to much to ask for?
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Jonathan Clay on 2012-02-16, 20:42

Did you bother asking?
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by xironn on 2012-02-16, 21:02

Olv007 never bothers to ask for anything, he is just here to criticize
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Jonathan Clay on 2012-02-16, 21:05

Just saying because Shadow started a complaints topic in BAF forum on 13 december! None of the signees ever asked shadow anything about better organisation, ranks or whatever
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by xironn on 2012-02-16, 21:09

Jonathan Clay wrote:Just saying because Shadow started a complaints topic in BAF forum on 13 december! None of the signees ever asked shadow anything about better organisation, ranks or whatever

exactly, this is just another politically motivated backstab
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by xironn on 2012-02-16, 21:13

btw, move this to the proper place. This is not a congress discussion.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by M.Leviathin on 2012-02-16, 21:38

Agreed that this is just another politically motivated move mostly by TR and friends.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by El1teBE on 2012-02-16, 21:40

Jonathan Clay wrote:Just saying because Shadow started a complaints topic in BAF forum on 13 december! None of the signees ever asked shadow anything about better organisation, ranks or whatever
That's not exactly true (open that topic and you'll see, although that was not a comply to shadow, exactly, but to one of the BAF SOs). And maybe we didn't comply - until now, but we can make a start now, can we?

xironn wrote:exactly, this is just another politically motivated backstab
Disagree! I am seeing this as our "first" comply!

xironn wrote:btw, move this to the proper place. This is not a congress discussion.
Agree on that. This is indeed not a congress discussion. This is a comply from BAF soldiers, and it should be moved here: http://www.erepbelgium.com/t5091-complaints-topic

M.Leviathin wrote:Agreed that this is just another politically motivated move mostly by TR and friends.
Yeah, MOSTLY (maybe).
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by M.Leviathin on 2012-02-16, 21:42

Also, I still don't see how this is shadow's fault. This game has become more and more stagnant as the days go by. Just go by other national forums and you'll see they're complaining about the same thing. Perhaps that is also shadow's fault? Or maybe they just need more role-play things like imaginary medals and ranks for fun.

EDIT: Oh! We can just use the excuse that NLSP and friends use to keep him in power.

Ahem: If that's the only thing then I don't see reason to change.

ahaha that felt good. Smile
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by goopypants on 2012-02-16, 22:12

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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Jonathan Clay on 2012-02-16, 22:20

el1temkd wrote:
Jonathan Clay wrote:Just saying because Shadow started a complaints topic in BAF forum on 13 december! None of the signees ever asked shadow anything about better organisation, ranks or whatever
That's not exactly true (open that topic and you'll see, although that was not a comply to shadow, exactly, but to one of the BAF SOs). And maybe we didn't comply - until now, but we can make a start now, can we?

Nobody complained about the things you complain about now

I have no problem with complaints but before writing open letters and throwing it in public you could have used the complaints topic first for these issues? If shadow hadn't responded there or we didn't have a debat about it you could write an open letter. Right now this just looks like a move by tecuvo to defame shadow and become the new BAF leader
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by El1teBE on 2012-02-16, 22:21

goopypants wrote:
It is not innocent Razz
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by El1teBE on 2012-02-16, 22:23

Jonathan Clay wrote:
el1temkd wrote:
Jonathan Clay wrote:Just saying because Shadow started a complaints topic in BAF forum on 13 december! None of the signees ever asked shadow anything about better organisation, ranks or whatever
That's not exactly true (open that topic and you'll see, although that was not a comply to shadow, exactly, but to one of the BAF SOs). And maybe we didn't comply - until now, but we can make a start now, can we?

Nobody complained about the things you complain about now

I have no problem with complaints but before writing open letters and throwing it in public you could have used the complaints topic first for these issues? If shadow hadn't responded there or we didn't have a debat about it you could write an open letter. Right now this just looks like a move by tecuvo to defame shadow and become the new BAF leader
I (somehow) agree on that. That's why I said that this should have been posted in Compliant Topic instead of here.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by ThomasRED on 2012-02-16, 22:29

Tecuvo is waiting since three months to be appointed Commander ingame in the BAF MU.

First the High Command have asked Betafoxtrot to appoint him.
Then the High Command asked Shadowukcs to appoint him.

I can understand his frustration :-/

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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Jonathan Clay on 2012-02-16, 22:44

Sure frustration but there's a right in doing this. If he had asked for more organisation internally three weeks I'm sure we could have worked something out together with all the BAF soldiers and there wouldn't be this mess

EDIT: I want make clear: I definetly don't think it's Tecuvos fault BAF is a mess right now (to be clear). I believe everyone involved is to blame but I just don't think this letter should be posted here and at this moment.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Karakoran on 2012-02-16, 23:01

Discontent among the Soldiers?
Clearly the vile workings of NLSP, TR, and their League of Evil!
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Mudduck95 on 2012-02-16, 23:05

Jonathan Clay wrote:Sure frustration but there's a right in doing this. If he had asked for more organisation internally three weeks I'm sure we could have worked something out together with all the BAF soldiers and there wouldn't be this mess

EDIT: I want make clear: I definetly don't think it's Tecuvos fault BAF is a mess right now (to be clear). I believe everyone involved is to blame but I just don't think this letter should be posted here and at this moment.

I agree with that JC.

Now that the organization of the MU has been brought up why not now go ahead and fix it.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Karakoran on 2012-02-16, 23:13

The way things currently seem, the MU could be fixed quite easily. Instead though we have all sorts of problems, like Shadow refusing to acknowledged the HC's picks.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Fhaemita Malodorous on 2012-02-16, 23:14

Mudduck95 wrote:Now that the organization of the MU has been brought up why not now go ahead and fix it.

This is still the wrong place for that though, This isn't a congress matter.
I would like to request admin or moderator to close this topic.
BAF should fix this internally on their private forum and not in congress.

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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Mudduck95 on 2012-02-16, 23:19

Fhaemita Malodorous wrote:
Mudduck95 wrote:Now that the organization of the MU has been brought up why not now go ahead and fix it.

This is still the wrong place for that though, This isn't a congress matter.
I would like to request admin or moderator to close this topic.
BAF should fix this internally on their private forum and not in congress.

I completely agree. Instead of closing it, why not just move it?
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Jonathan Clay on 2012-02-16, 23:25

I started a poll in the BAF-forum to ask soldier the option they prefer for the future of the BAF
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by tecuvo on 2012-02-16, 23:41

I see BAF as the national army, and i think it is a way to improve diplomatic relations. But to achieve this we need a good co-operation between BAF command and government.

Shadow as ingame commander will always be controversial.
Especially since he uses this as a tool to upset others (by claiming baf is his, and not state property).

I agree this is not a congress topic, maybe it should indeed be moved to the complaint topic
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by tecuvo on 2012-02-16, 23:45

M.Leviathin wrote:Agreed that this is just another politically motivated move mostly by TR and friends.

This has nothing to do with TR or "his friends"
this was my initiative and i contacted a lot of baf members to ask if they agree with this.
Some agreed, some didn't

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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Lisa Van Neste on 2012-02-17, 00:08

pig


Last edited by Lisa Van Neste on 2012-02-17, 02:03; edited 1 time in total
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Lisa Van Neste on 2012-02-17, 00:10

Lisa Van Neste wrote:
M.Leviathin wrote:I don't see how fighting for these countries isn't fun anymore is shadow's fault. I mean, Belgium has been doing nothing for months and it will continue to do nothing for months. We are neutral, so there are no countries we'll fight for as allies and others as enemies. So, if you want excitement and purpose, the real problem isn't that shadow is now the owner of the BAF, but our neutrality is.

i agree that belgium beeing neutral is a problem, its not good for our activity and our "fun".
Besides that i don't want to interfere in this debat. But linking the neutrality off belgium to this matter doesn't seem appropriate even though i agree whit the "problem"
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by M.Leviathin on 2012-02-17, 00:28

Don't be afraid to join in on a debate. Voicing your opinion is the only way to shape Belgium the way you want it to be. Besides, 90% of the game happens here.

Anyway, but our neutrality is the problem. We have no conflict. No enemies. No allies that we care about. We are isolated from the world. As much as they like to make shadow a scapegoat for their problems, our neutrality is the source of some internal conflict.

EDIT: I also think shadow may be on vacation right now IRL, so you might have to wait a while for an official response~
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by ThomasRED on 2012-02-17, 00:34

The problem is pretty simple :

Shadowukcs doesn't want and doesn't have the time to manage the BAF. Therefore why refusing to appoint someone who want to do it as BAF Commander ? Moreover when he is controlling the MU paid by the State for our national army.

Three months ago, the High Command asked Betafoxtrot to appoint Tecuvo as Commander when he left eBE with our state funded MU. He refused and finally the MU ended in the hands of shadowukcs. Shadow said he bought it to Betafoxtrot but Betafoxtrot said it wasn't true. Then the High Command asked shadowukcs to appoint finally Tecuvo as Commander. And he refuse to do so.

This bad story have to end somewhere...
We need to think about our country, not about ourselves... :-/

PS: thread moved to the Military section.

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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Lisa Van Neste on 2012-02-17, 02:02

M.Leviathin wrote:Don't be afraid to join in on a debate. Voicing your opinion is the only way to shape Belgium the way you want it to be. Besides, 90% of the game happens here.

Anyway, but our neutrality is the problem. We have no conflict. No enemies. No allies that we care about. We are isolated from the world. As much as they like to make shadow a scapegoat for their problems, our neutrality is the source of some internal conflict.

EDIT: I also think shadow may be on vacation right now IRL, so you might have to wait a while for an official response~

I understand the downside though, for a community as small as eBelgium it would be deadly if we picked a side in the conflict, either we would be occupied and/or pto threats would face us more... .
But personnally i would like to risk that in order to bring more fun to this nation, but eBelgium has a "tradition" off beeing neutral i don't think majority would support us getting more global involved, even though in my personal opinion i find it the best option. But majority wins...
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Mudduck95 on 2012-02-17, 02:59

Lisa Van Neste wrote:
M.Leviathin wrote:Don't be afraid to join in on a debate. Voicing your opinion is the only way to shape Belgium the way you want it to be. Besides, 90% of the game happens here.

Anyway, but our neutrality is the problem. We have no conflict. No enemies. No allies that we care about. We are isolated from the world. As much as they like to make shadow a scapegoat for their problems, our neutrality is the source of some internal conflict.

EDIT: I also think shadow may be on vacation right now IRL, so you might have to wait a while for an official response~

I understand the downside though, for a community as small as eBelgium it would be deadly if we picked a side in the conflict, either we would be occupied and/or pto threats would face us more... .
But personnally i would like to risk that in order to bring more fun to this nation, but eBelgium has a "tradition" off beeing neutral i don't think majority would support us getting more global involved, even though in my personal opinion i find it the best option. But majority wins...

You are right Lisa. I think that we need to be more 'globally involved' but as picking a side is not what Belgium needs. We have seen in the past what that does. (We have been occupied by France not that long ago).

Levi, I see where you are coming from but we are just not strong enough to be on one side or another.

For instance, every country around us does at least twice our damage.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Olv007 on 2012-02-17, 04:03

xironn wrote:Olv007 never bothers to ask for anything, he is just here to criticize

xironn, do you know this dutch expression "de pot verwijt de ketel dat hij zwart ziet"?

Every post of you I read is to criticize everything (http://www.erepbelgium.com/spa/xironn). So accusing someone else to do what you do every time sounds very hypocrite. I think it is my right to give my opinion about something I'm directly concerned with. Now let me debate my thing and if you don't agree with it feel free to comment on that. Otherwise I just ignore you like I should do every time.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Gibberish45 on 2012-02-17, 04:11

Every time I come back it's the same fundamental debate Razz

I have no knowledge of the issue at hand but I think the payment is more than fair for a day's work in the BAF and the timing of the letter is certainly interesting as Shadow left for vacation today....

I will reserve judgement until I catch up.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Mudduck95 on 2012-02-17, 04:38

That is very good point Gibberish! I totally forgot that Shadow is moving today. He will be back Sunday or Monday, I think.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by MaryamQ on 2012-02-17, 05:09

The timing is, apparently, unfortunate, but the issue is not new, and I note that close to half of the active members of BAF have signed this petition. It is clear that there is some real frustration in our community that needs to be addressed or it is only going to continue to drain our energy that could be used for building a better eNation.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Mudduck95 on 2012-02-17, 05:12

Yes! But I feel that we really need to wait until Shadow gets back because he is really involved in this. Even though, he might say a few words that are not nice.

I want to hear what he has to say.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Lisa Van Neste on 2012-02-17, 05:27

Mudduck95 wrote:Yes! But I feel that we really need to wait until Shadow gets back because he is really involved in this. Even though, he might say a few words that are not nice.

I want to hear what he has to say.

Shadow already stated on IRC that he doesn't want to complie to it, however he also stated that he would be absent for 7 days after which the MU command automattically would be transfered to the 2nd in command.
He stated not to be willing to log during his absence but due to this letter he would considerate once again.
So wait and see is our only option.
Besides this MU issue, is there any support to restart a discussion about eBelgiums neutrality and how it effects eBelgium (pro's/con's) ?
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by tecuvo on 2012-02-17, 09:33

yes, my timing is quite bad, but I posted it right now because i got replies from all the people I've sent the letter too. I didn't really think about it when i posted it, but i thought he would only be inactive for 1 or 2 days.

If he will be away for a week, as said in the post above, then why is he still commander ingame?
We were having difficulties to set DO last days, and now only the captain is left to set up DO if there are availlable fights at the priolist.
Only the commander can pick battles that aren't in the priolist. And yes, shadow did change the priolist yesterday, in order to have more battles, but that's not enough.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Nohjis on 2012-02-17, 11:09

shadowukcs has said he was willing to work out a compromise in a small private conversation we had yesterday before he left. This is the only reason why there is no SC case up at this time. It's not the few extra days that are going to change something at this point and I will wait for his return before taking other action.

It's unfortunate that he feels there's no need for a highly present commander in game. While the priority list will do a lot of the work, it does require some attention from time to time, especially when planning something. It's also unfortunate many are considering the high command decision to be a political one.

What matters most to me is that the national army is ran in a correct manner and is not being used as an extra weight in debates. Being Commander, like being Supply Officer is a volunteer job where everyone expects some dedication and some activity. If we are to consider the MU and shadow's loan as separate issues for instance, the same has to be said about the MU and other political debates. The MU is state property and not shadowukcs' as far as the community is concerned. Claiming it to be different will only lead to people getting upset.

This decision did not come out of the blue, it's not hard to see that BAF was ran with a lot of care and attention for its soldiers prior to Betafoxtrot and that the soldiers have come to expect something more out of an MU then what shadowukcs is currently offering them.

As far as the neutrality debate goes:
It's indeed the lack of focus on an external enemy that causes internal struggles. That's true for every community. People need someone or something to fight I guess. However that does not make it impossible to have fun with an MU army in a neutral country.

The idea that was set up during the middle of the previous term (fighting a week for an ally and then moving to the next one) really has good potential since we only have 4 MPP and 3 of them are semi-permanent (I'm hoping we can change Oblige's mind before the end of the MPP). It would also mean a need to be in contact with the MoD & MoFA of our different allies creating stronger ties.
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-02-18, 03:46

arrived in LA, not got time to deal with this now

a few things:

1)I'm not going to be away for 7 days. more like 3 days or something and I do log in every day, if only for just 5 seconds to check the prio list

2)I'm not giving up BAF. Stop nagging

3) Cotarius is now General, arranges everything and gives me orders for DO's, who works where, who gets what, how the budget is managed, ...
If you want your role-play s***, send him suggestions.

4) if he does good, I might consider giving him the MU in a month or tow.

5) I'm officially awake for 27 hours now. Leave me alone while the vains in my eyes get more and more red and I'm seconds away from falling with my head on my keyboard
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Manong Z on 2012-02-18, 04:12

shadowukcs wrote:arrived in LA, not got time to deal with this now

a few things:

1)I'm not going to be away for 7 days. more like 3 days or something and I do log in every day, if only for just 5 seconds to check the prio list

2)I'm not giving up BAF. Stop nagging

3) Cotarius is now General, arranges everything and gives me orders for DO's, who works where, who gets what, how the budget is managed, ...
If you want your role-play s***, send him suggestions.

4) if he does good, I might consider giving him the MU in a month or tow.

5) I'm officially awake for 27 hours now. Leave me alone while the vains in my eyes get more and more red and I'm seconds away from falling with my head on my keyboard

Welcome to the USA shadow! Smile

Anyways, it saddens me that this country has grew even more divided. Sad
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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by Gibberish45 on 2012-02-18, 04:29

I wanted to make some sort of metaphor about shadow resisting more as more pressure is applied and ended up with this..... *best with sound*

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Re: open letter to shadowukcs

Post by jamster737 on 2012-02-18, 14:28

I am happy with shadows role he is doing well. We don't really do anything in Belgium anyway. As for the people who wrote the letter at the end people who like shadow could make an open letter to you saying how we like him it is pointless. Like it or not we cant remove shadow as commander
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