Requiem for CP August 2012

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Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Requiem Domine on 2012-07-26, 17:38

Start of my presidential campaign

Smile
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by AndreasC on 2012-07-26, 18:43

Good luck!
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Viridi on 2012-07-26, 18:53

I bid you a successful campaign
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Fhaemita Malodorous on 2012-07-26, 18:55

Good luck!

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by tommot on 2012-07-26, 20:12

The best of luck. Smile

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Critically on 2012-07-26, 21:58

Good luck !!

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Juan Cruz on 2012-07-27, 00:51

Good luck!
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Jofroi on 2012-07-27, 07:05

Good luck.

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Requiem Domine on 2012-07-28, 11:08

CP Manifesto - Part 1: Foreign Affairs and Immigration policy
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Fhaemita Malodorous on 2012-07-28, 11:33

Requiem Domine wrote:CP Manifesto - Part 1: Foreign Affairs and Immigration policy

Voted and commented !

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-07-28, 11:42

Requiem Domine wrote:CP Manifesto - Part 1: Foreign Affairs and Immigration policy


Same comment as I put IG


good article, but you still can't force people. Sure, you can take away their citizenship programs but in the end you'd be dictating to other players how they should play the game. That's fundamentally wrong in my opinion, even if your intentions are noble, free choice for all who sign up here should be absolute.

Not to mention that half of congress isn't daily forumactive, the other half favours their friends and that in no time you'd have a sh*tload of SC cases because someone voted too late or no time limit was given or someone wanted to extend the debate time coz he's waiting for new information,... I can think of a million examples how certain "elements" in eBE will abuse this for their personal gain

I like the FA part tho
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by boer jan on 2012-07-28, 13:32

You are right, we can not force people, nothing in-game is provided for that, and nothing in-game tells us to provide citizens programs neither, but we can show the right way, and if this need some sort of punishment, so be it.
Free choice for all? no, every country has his laws and every citizen must try to follow them, congress members must not only try, but follow them straight, or ask to change them.

You are not member of congress so how do you now about their daily presence?

I can think of a million examples how certain "elements" in eBE will abuse this for their personal gain
Bet you do, I do not now you, but after everything I read on this forum I have the strong feeling your are one of those "elements" you are talking about
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Jofroi on 2012-07-28, 13:51

Shad has more experience of congress than most players boer Wink. And eBelgium hasn't changed that much in a year (actually yes because 1 year ago it was the beggining of the civil war, but you got the point :p)

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-07-28, 14:09

boer jan wrote:You are right, we can not force people, nothing in-game is provided for that, and nothing in-game tells us to provide citizens programs neither, but we can show the right way, and if this need some sort of punishment, so be it.
Free choice for all? no, every country has his laws and every citizen must try to follow them, congress members must not only try, but follow them straight, or ask to change them.

You are not member of congress so how do you now about their daily presence?

I can think of a million examples how certain "elements" in eBE will abuse this for their personal gain
Bet you do, I do not now you, but after everything I read on this forum I have the strong feeling your are one of those "elements" you are talking about

see my comments in the article: It's not you who's providing the citizens programs. Don't kid yourself. You're not doing charity, you're not doing a civil service. It's not like you're giving your profits to the treasury. It's the citizens, of whom 90% isn't daily forum active and their companies that generate the funds for the citizens programs. You're just redistributing it.

In other words: you're using the tax payers money as hostage to ensure that the masses obey the will of the "community".

Also the implication that I don't know eBE congress is p much laughable as Jofroi already said.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by ThomasRED on 2012-07-28, 14:49

shadowukcs wrote:In other words: you're using the tax payers money as hostage to ensure that the masses obey the will of the "community".
That would be true if our treasury would have been built thanks to players taxes, and not by the bot taxes thanks to the work of the MoF and of a special program to collect more taxes in which participated few active citizens.

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Viridi on 2012-07-28, 18:16

Please take all petty arguments elsewhere, as this topic is for debate/discussion about RD's campaign, not for arguing over how we run our treasury, etc.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by tommot on 2012-07-28, 18:30

Can someone tell me what this ORIGINAL topic was all about?

we seem to go WAAAAYY of topic.

Oh and shadow: don't take your frustrations out on someone who's in his right to complain about this "Never ending Story". Go place it in a topic or section that is available to you(and trust me, there are plenty of such places).

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-07-28, 18:34

tommot wrote:Can someone tell me what this ORIGINAL topic was all about?

we seem to go WAAAAYY of topic.

Oh and shadow: don't take your frustrations out on someone who's in his right to complain about this "Never ending Story". Go place it in a topic or section that is available to you(and trust me, there are plenty of such places).


not taking it out on viridi (if it seemed that way: sorry Viridi <3) only taking it out on TR.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Jofroi on 2012-07-28, 20:57

Ok let's get back to topic:

Requiem: What are your plan for the economics? :p

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Requiem Domine on 2012-07-28, 21:15

Jofroi wrote:Requiem: What are your plan for the economics? :p
Sorting out a solution atm with Nohjis. Embarassed
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by MaryamQ on 2012-07-28, 22:09

[MOD] This topic has been split. The discussion about sources of tax income and citizen rights may be found in the General Discussions part of the forum. [/MOD]
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Requiem Domine on 2012-07-30, 12:22

CP Manifesto - Part 2: Domestic Affairs and Education Razz
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by tommot on 2012-07-30, 16:06

looks good

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Requiem Domine on 2012-08-01, 12:45

CP Manifesto - Part 3: Military and Economic policy
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by boer jan on 2012-08-01, 14:25

the reform of BNA has been looked at, and just like you propose and we did not changed it because it is wrong this way, the force of BNA lays just in the addition of the 2nd division.
on the other hand if 2nd rest in BTA they will be punished or you have to boost them there with weapons.
economic I do not agree again, a lot of us got rid of our foodcompanies because it was cheaper to buy than make them ourself and now you want to raise the price with taxes, and furthermore strangers will see wat happens and will raise their prices too.
until now I found your plans OK, but that was before part 3
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Requiem Domine on 2012-08-01, 14:34

boer jan wrote:the reform of BNA has been looked at, and just like you propose and we did not changed it because it is wrong this way, the force of BNA lays just in the addition of the 2nd division.
Nope. Look here. The main force of BNA lays in division 3.
boer jan wrote:economic I do not agree again, a lot of us got rid of our foodcompanies because it was cheaper to buy than make them ourself and now you want to raise the price with taxes, and furthermore strangers will see wat happens and will raise their prices too.
I do not catch the point. It is the income tax. Not the import tax/VAT.

And it would be firstly discussed by the Congress. The CP can not change it on his/her own. Smile
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-08-01, 15:04

Requiem Domine wrote:
boer jan wrote:the reform of BNA has been looked at, and just like you propose and we did not changed it because it is wrong this way, the force of BNA lays just in the addition of the 2nd division.
Nope. Look here. The main force of BNA lays in division 3.
boer jan wrote:economic I do not agree again, a lot of us got rid of our foodcompanies because it was cheaper to buy than make them ourself and now you want to raise the price with taxes, and furthermore strangers will see wat happens and will raise their prices too.
I do not catch the point. It is the income tax. Not the import tax/VAT.

And it would be firstly discussed by the Congress. The CP can not change it on his/her own. Smile


^what he says

you do know the difference between income tax and VAT, right, boer jan?

for strangers there is absolutely no effect whatsoever. The only ones who will slightly feel this are the workers. Soldiers won't even be affected by this either.

my opinions for the rest of the article:

-I think para funding should be reduced even further. 1G in combination with BYS is still a lot of daily money
-I'm extremely pleased with you taking action against BYS²
-very happy with the 1k milestone
-order the MoF to start exchanging that giant pile of utterly useless CC into gold while it's still relatively low. (can take ages seeing as you can only exchange 10G/day)
-like I already told you in private chat: I would make a budget based on %'s of the past months income and not on relative numbers. Get that budget voted passed trough congress each month with certain %'s (like reserves) fixed in laws or the constitution.


Other than that: good manifesto. You clearly adres the problems, you've clearly given this some thought. Good work.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by boer jan on 2012-08-01, 15:20

you are evaluating on the wrong way, in battles mostly division 2 makes the difference because we are stronger than those of other country's
before the reform it did not counted, but now it does cause every division is separated in battle
further, its holidaytime without DOF so results may deviate here, but wat do you say about the 4 div2 in the top 10 hits, were they in BTA it would be much lower, now you have a intern competition: to be as good as 3rd div.

raxes, indeed incometax, so that means if I buy food I will pay 5% where I payed 1% before?
about import taxes, vendors will adjust their prices when taxes drop from 12 to 5%, we are loosing, gov. loosing and the vender is gaining more
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Requiem Domine on 2012-08-01, 15:24

boer jan wrote:raxes, indeed incometax, so that means if I buy food I will pay 5% where I payed 1% before?
about import taxes, vendors will adjust their prices when taxes drop from 12 to 5%, we are loosing, gov. loosing and the vender is gaining more
Nope, it means if your employer pays you now 100BEF/day, in future you will get 95 instead of 99. Smile
Also, if the WRM import tax drop from 20% to 5%, it will attract a lot of foreigners to sell here. In that case we will be earning more than we do now.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by boer jan on 2012-08-01, 15:32

OK misunderstood here, so I will have to raise if I wanna keep my workers,
it always stays the same, we will give less and take more, one of both OK, but not both on the same time.
and can someone tell me why gov. needs gold for except for the programs?
thought most things are paid in cc?
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-08-01, 16:20

boer jan wrote:OK misunderstood here, so I will have to raise if I wanna keep my workers,
it always stays the same, we will give less and take more, one of both OK, but not both on the same time.
and can someone tell me why gov. needs gold for except for the programs?
thought most things are paid in cc?

to your first statement:
not really you don't need to raise your wages. 90% of the people won't even notice the tax change. You always post up an offer at the bruto income and few people look at their net income. Besides, if they work for someone else they'll be subject to that very same tax.

Oh and if you're working in a commune this won't affect you one bit.

As for the gold question:
CC is utterly useless. Gold is the only valuable currency in this game. If they would remove CC tomorrow it would barely have an effect. CC serves no other purposes than for show.

Gold= stability. No matter what updates the admin pulls through, since day 1 of this game gold has always had great value (well, actually in early Beta it hadn't but that's a story for another time) and can be considered the only stable factor in this game.

Also: Gold can be used for gold packs in case we need it when defending our regions, gold can be used speculate and make nice profits, gold can be used as currency to buy weapons from foreigners at a better price, ...

General rule in eRep: Gold: stock it, it's valuable, everyone wants it
CC: used to wipe the sh*t off your arse.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by tommot on 2012-08-01, 16:35

I like to know why CC is useless. i like short clear posts like this(easier to read) but in case of the uselesness of CC i need mor info before saying more.

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-08-01, 16:40

tommot wrote:I like to know why CC is useless. i like short clear posts like this(easier to read) but in case of the uselesness of CC i need mor info before saying more.


short, I'm-writing-my-thesis-and-got-no-time-to-go-indepth-answer:

-admin bot f*** up generating oversupply
-no use other than for daily consumption goods (which is p useless with most people being self supplying or getting supplies from their MU's)
-you can't use it to build companies (at least not the decent ones)
-a CC inflation the size of Godzilla's dick when confronted with a kawaiii loch ness monster (mainly again caused by the admin, which leads us back to point 1)


what is happening is the admin having a huge pump that just pumps CC into the market out of thin air. That's what f*** everything up.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by ThomasRED on 2012-08-01, 17:13

shadowukcs wrote:what is happening is the admin having a huge pump that just pumps CC into the market out of thin air. That's what f*** everything up.
In the contrary, it is what have allowed eBelgium to help several dozen of belgians citizens to stay active and to progress faster in the game. Without all these CCs we have been able to catch thanks to the bot, it wouldn't have been possible to fund several programs such as the Citizen Packs, the Land Subsidies, the IRC Civilian Raid, the PULSE Subsidy, the eBelgian Lottery,... In the same spirit, without all these useless CC, we wouldn't have been able to increase the supplies of our national army, helping our soldiers to do a maximum of hits every day not only thanks to gun supplies but also thanks to food supplies.

To have gold doesn't matter anymore for months in eRepublik (since mpp doesn't cost gold anymore in fact), and you know it as well. To use gold for gold packs would be just throwing our gold away, as it have no sense to win a battle in erep if you know that you won't be able to win it the day after. And it's the case of eBelgium. To spend gold on mercenaries to win a battle on Day X, to then loose the region on Day X+1 would be useless. And that's why eBelgium choose an alternative way to get stronger, choosing to invest in it own soldiers, helping them to rank up faster than before, increasing the total amount of dmg our country is able to deal on his own. To buy weapons from foreigners can also be done in CC, and gold offers are quite rare on #itrade. To use gold to speculate ? The monetary market have been a nightmare since admins unified all the currencies and this can't be seen as a normal regular source of huge profits. In fact, the only thing for which it's interesting to get some gold as a country is to be able to help our citizens during upgrade promotions, and that's why we have a law which stipulate eBE need to get at least 300g in reserve to be able to answer loans requests (but then you don't believe in loans, as ingame rules stipulate it exist only donations, so legally loans are not enforceable - except that we have others tools, like this forum and it community to organize ourself and help each other).

But at the end, cc, gold, gold, cc, it is the same. When we look at our bank, we don't need to look at the bef amount and at the gold amount, but at the global amount we have. eBE is going bankrupt because we have only 500g left ? It's the result of a simple choice from our MoFs, to donate money in gold and not in CC as the law authorize them. Let's start to make all the donations in CC starting today and not in gold anymore, and start buying gold for cc everyday, and we will get 1000 gold in 1.5 month... But what would be the point ? The money is currently invested in our citizens, and eBE doesn't need to have 1k gold in reserve or 3.3m cc... To conclude, it's not important to say we have 3.3m in bef and 500g, what matter is the total amount, 4m bef (3.3 + 500*1400).

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-08-01, 17:33

ThomasRED wrote:In the contrary, it is what have allowed eBelgium to help several dozen of belgians citizens to stay active and to progress faster in the game. Without all these CCs we have been able to catch thanks to the bot, it wouldn't have been possible to fund several programs such as the Citizen Packs, the Land Subsidies, the IRC Civilian Raid, the PULSE Subsidy, the eBelgian Lottery,... In the same spirit, without all these useless CC, we wouldn't have been able to increase the supplies of our national army, helping our soldiers to do a maximum of hits every day not only thanks to gun supplies but also thanks to food supplies.

you're wrong, would take too long to explain but you're wrong. Short version: without the bot (and the oversupply which is why the bot was created in the first place) the amount of CC you'd get from taxes would be less but the CC would be worth more, thus leveling it out.


You are making the same mistake here as you made with BYS and BYS². the same mistake that has brought you into this mess. In a Mubutu-esque way, you're staring blind on the amount of CC you're getting in without looking at the value of that CC.

How many times do I still need to explain to you that simple fact. You can make billions of CC, but that doesn't mean anything if it has a low value.

the only advantage this has is Q4-buying

But I've already tried explaining this to you a dozen times and I know you're too stupid to properly grasp this, otherwise simple concept, so I'm not even bothering anymore.

ThomasRED wrote:
To have gold doesn't matter anymore for months in eRepublik (since mpp doesn't cost gold anymore in fact), and you know it as well. To use gold for gold packs would be just throwing our gold away, as it have no sense to win a battle in erep if you know that you won't be able to win it the day after. And it's the case of eBelgium. To spend gold on mercenaries to win a battle on Day X, to then loose the region on Day X+1 would be useless. And that's why eBelgium choose an alternative way to get stronger, choosing to invest in it own soldiers, helping them to rank up faster than before, increasing the total amount of dmg our country is able to deal on his own. To buy weapons from foreigners can also be done in CC, and gold offers are quite rare on #itrade. To use gold to speculate ? The monetary market have been a nightmare since admins unified all the currencies and this can't be seen as a normal regular source of huge profits. In fact, the only thing for which it's interesting to get some gold as a country is to be able to help our citizens during upgrade promotions, and that's why we have a law which stipulate eBE need to get at least 300g in reserve to be able to answer loans requests (but then you don't believe in loans, as ingame rules stipulate it exist only donations, so legally loans are not enforceable - except that we have others tools, like this forum and it community to organize ourself and help each other).

^proving point about TR's economic retardeness. If anyone's interested I'll explain when I actually have the time for it.


ThomasRED wrote:
But at the end, cc, gold, gold, cc, it is the same. When we look at our bank, we don't need to look at the bef amount and at the gold amount, but at the global amount we have. eBE is going bankrupt because we have only 500g left ? It's the result of a simple choice from our MoFs, to donate money in gold and not in CC as the law authorize them. Let's start to make all the donations in CC starting today and not in gold anymore, and start buying gold for cc everyday, and we will get 1000 gold in 1.5 month... But what would be the point ? The money is currently invested in our citizens, and eBE doesn't need to have 1k gold in reserve or 3.3m cc... To conclude, it's not important to say we have 3.3m in bef and 500g, what matter is the total amount, 4m bef (3.3 + 500*1400).

Again: ITC: Mobutu Financial politics.

You'd make a great minister of finance in some backwards African country, TR.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by AndreasC on 2012-08-01, 18:38

Currently bef has no inflation, it's getting worth more. A few months 1 cost 2000 bef now only 1350, it's a good time to trade bef for gold because the wages and incomes from the market are going to drop. If we can we might even wait a bit longer untill gold is worth less and then trade bef for gold. We have enough bef in the bank right now.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-08-01, 18:41

AndreasC wrote:Currently bef has no inflation, it's getting worth more. A few months 1 cost 2000 bef now only 1350, it's a good time to trade bef for gold because the wages and incomes from the market are going to drop. If we can we might even wait a bit longer untill gold is worth less and then trade bef for gold. We have enough bef in the bank right now.

yes for the past week now yea. Since they implanted Q7.

it took a serious drop in the first 3-4 days but now it seems to be stagnating or declining with small steps. Either way, once the next offer is launched again and more people will have Q7, it will increase again. The same happened to Q6


Nevertheless the value of BEF is still horrible tho. the "BEF for gold" market is completely unexistant.

I actually remember the times when 1BEF= 0.070G
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Jofroi on 2012-08-02, 06:41

I remember the times when we were refusing to print money at 0.005 to avoid inflation ^^.

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-08-02, 11:45

Jofroi wrote:I remember the times when we were refusing to print money at 0.005 to avoid inflation ^^.


lol I remember when I had to literally beg the CP to please print 30k BEF at 0,005G=1BEF so I could build Q4's at a very cheap rate.

I also remember the time when gold was so ridiculously cheap that you worked a few days as an employee and had enough gold to build yourself a company.



I also remember people saying that the game would end if gold value would go over 1000 CC.
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Requiem Domine on 2012-08-03, 21:25

Final words Smile
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Fhaemita Malodorous on 2012-08-03, 23:40

Requiem Domine wrote:Final words Smile

\o/

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by tommot on 2012-08-04, 12:20

That sums it all up.
Good luck

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Lily Jayne Summers on 2012-08-04, 15:10

Good luck. ^_^
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Misanthropist on 2012-08-06, 23:50

Good luck!
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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by Fhaemita Malodorous on 2012-08-06, 23:54


Congratz

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Re: Requiem for CP August 2012

Post by NLSP on 2012-08-07, 20:45

poor requiem, he won ...
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