MoF Update?

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MoF Update?

Post by Kylero on 2012-11-12, 01:26

Can we get an update on how our treasury is doing? Long-term wise? Have the changes to BYS and BNA reduced the deficit?
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Viridi on 2012-11-12, 01:35

>No.
>No.
>Hopefully.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Kylero on 2012-11-12, 01:37

And you're the MoF now?
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Lily Jayne Summers on 2012-11-12, 02:05

There will be an update tomorrow with the polls results.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Viridi on 2012-11-12, 05:29

Kylero wrote:And you're the MoF now?

Whoever said that?
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by SX80 on 2012-11-12, 08:09

Didn't have time to do it this weekend, will try one of the next coming days.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by SX80 on 2012-11-13, 00:09

eBe Finances up to 1818
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/2155996/1/20
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Kylero on 2012-11-13, 02:17

Great article SX80!

Well Lily and her government, what's the plan?
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Lily Jayne Summers on 2012-11-13, 02:35

Kylero wrote:Great article SX80!

Well Lily and her government, what's the plan?

SX80 is part of the Government? Didn't you read the article?

"Still the current expenses continue to deplete our reserves quite rapidly. At this point it is my recommendation to look at a different supply model for BNA, as BNA together with MPP's are our two main expense posts. Alternatively we can look to change our tax levels to see if we can improve our income."
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-11-13, 11:04

ugh, why are there so many economic retards in the world?


BNA supply model should be simple: give them X% of monthly tax income from the previous month.

or even better, use the system I had set up and BNA would cost you nothing at all.

>change tax levels

mentalfacepalm.jpg

changing VAT: Most people produce WRM. so increasing VAT will have only limited effects. Not to mention you're only stimulating the black market or people going over the borders to buy their goods.

Changing Income tax: probably even more retarded as most experiences players work in communes. All you'll do is hit the small people and the few eBelgian players with employees (eg jofroi)

Changing import tax: again: small effects as there aren't even that many foreign sellers here.


increasing tax at this point is just plain retarded. The only thing you can do is drastically cut expenses. And if you had tied your expenses to your a percentage of your income, like I've been suggesting for years now, this s*** wouldn't have happened.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Lily Jayne Summers on 2012-11-13, 11:32

shadowukcs wrote:ugh, why are there so many economic retards in the world?


BNA supply model should be simple: give them X% of monthly tax income from the previous month.

or even better, use the system I had set up and BNA would cost you nothing at all.

>change tax levels

mentalfacepalm.jpg

changing VAT: Most people produce WRM. so increasing VAT will have only limited effects. Not to mention you're only stimulating the black market or people going over the borders to buy their goods.

Changing Income tax: probably even more retarded as most experiences players work in communes. All you'll do is hit the small people and the few eBelgian players with employees (eg jofroi)

Changing import tax: again: small effects as there aren't even that many foreign sellers here.


increasing tax at this point is just plain retarded. The only thing you can do is drastically cut expenses. And if you had tied your expenses to your a percentage of your income, like I've been suggesting for years now, this s*** wouldn't have happened.

Shadow, I love you and everything, but don't do what Chewie does sometimes and call everyone a retard just because they disagree with you. It's not the best way to reach an agreement with people, no?
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-11-13, 12:03

Lily Jayne Summers wrote:

Shadow, I love you and everything, but don't do what Chewie does sometimes and call everyone a retard just because they disagree with you. It's not the best way to reach an agreement with people, no?


lillers, I love you too. But when I saw the financial state of this country, read the results of that survey and the proposed measurements and now see people talk about increasing taxes, I feel like scraping my balls over broken glass to deny myself the possibility of offspring and the prospect that they will be raised in a world where human stupidity is blindly followed by the masses and in some cases even cheered upon. As phones become smarter I feel humanity becomes dumber. eBE often feels like a good indicator of that.


seriously, solution to your crisis:

-Make self-sustainable BNA. (and don't say it's not possible because I've proven it is). This would reduce the cost of your military to 0 BEF (or a few k's of BEF for transport costs)
-invest gold in the stock market. Honestly, why do we even have big gold stocks???? there are gigantic profits to be made on the MM at the moment. Whomever is in charge of the treasury deserves to be [removed]. I made 50G in a few weeks.
-reduce citizenspacks to those citizens only who do more than just post in the citizenspack topic. If you're not active on the forum/IRC: stop being a parasite and go fck yourself
-tie all expenses to the income of the last month. eg: % percentage of the income of the previous month is used for MPP's, X% is used for Y
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Yannis on 2012-11-13, 14:19

I agree with Shadow on MM investment as long as it is secure and that citizen packs could be given to people putting some more efforts in trying to socialize with the community, learn about game mechanics and thus making the most out of their packs. (However, tell me if I'm wrong but I don't have the impression the citizen packs are so costs-involving when you see how little they are now and knowing that roughly 22 people claim it each day as anyone above level 35 can't claim it)

Got not enough information how you want to settle an self-sustainable MU at reasonable costs though, besides maybe finding SO's.

PS: I wonder how an argument Chew vs Shad would be like Razz
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-11-13, 14:32

Yannis wrote:I agree with Shadow on MM investment as long as it is secure and that citizen packs could be given to people putting some more efforts in trying to socialize with the community, learn about game mechanics and thus making the most out of their packs. (However, tell me if I'm wrong but I don't have the impression the citizen packs are so costs-involving when you see how little they are now and knowing that roughly 22 people claim it each day as anyone above level 35 can't claim it)

Got not enough information how you want to settle an self-sustainable MU at reasonable costs though, besides maybe finding SO's.

PS: I wonder how an argument Chew vs Shad would be like Razz

A) I gave the example of citizenspacks but the same counts for BNA supplies, BTA supplies,... and pretty much everything that involves free s***. If you're not active and not a part of this community, you don't need/deserve free stuff

B) Me and chew would never fight.(brilliant minds thinks alike) If we did, it would be a clash of the titans. The world would end.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Kylero on 2012-11-28, 04:55

Where are we at now? I noticed that we have sunk below the 2 million cc mark. Props to Lily! cheers

Do we still have surpluses?
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Lily Jayne Summers on 2012-11-28, 09:45

Kylero wrote:Where are we at now? I noticed that we have sunk below the 2 million cc mark. Props to Lily! cheers

Do we still have surpluses?

That's down to 3 MPP renewals.

We have no MPPs to agree to now for 2 weeks or so.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Stratigos Autokrator on 2012-12-14, 04:00

shadowukcs wrote:Changing import tax: again: small effects as there aren't even that many foreign sellers here.

By decreasing the tax income you might attract more foreign sellers assuming that there is a market demand in e-Belgium in order for them to establish a supply.
Although you have to reassure them that the import tax won't change with the next government.

A different approach would be to write down what kind of industry the community has.
If e-Belgium produces heavy weaponry then the import tax should go up in order to prevent the money leakage and boost the production. This way you won't let people outside this community to make a profit out of you.
In the long run you have to make e-Belgium an e-country that has secure borders and a good production in order to make exports and bring more currency back.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Fhaemita Malodorous on 2012-12-14, 07:48

Stratigos Autokrator wrote:By decreasing the tax income you might attract more foreign sellers assuming that there is a market demand in e-Belgium in order for them to establish a supply.
Although you have to reassure them that the import tax won't change with the next government.

You think lowering tax will increase attract foreign sellers?The economy is dead! Selling is hardly profitable in any countries because and food and weapons are worth s***. I hardly doubt that it would be worth anybody while to sell in eBE

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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Stratigos Autokrator on 2012-12-14, 08:36

Fhaemita Malodorous wrote:
Stratigos Autokrator wrote:By decreasing the tax income you might attract more foreign sellers assuming that there is a market demand in e-Belgium in order for them to establish a supply.
Although you have to reassure them that the import tax won't change with the next government.

You think lowering tax will increase attract foreign sellers?The economy is dead! Selling is hardly profitable in any countries because and food and weapons are worth s***. I hardly doubt that it would be worth anybody while to sell in eBE

It's an option depending on which model you want to apply on e-Belgium.
Lowering taxes by itself doesn't make any more difference than pouring water into an ocean. There are plenty of things you got to change in order to get the outcome you want.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-12-14, 17:29

classic newbie mistake in thinking the economy in erep is similar to the one IRL.


Hate to break it for you, friend, but they pretty much destroyed the economy. You have invisible admin bots buying up oversuply with money made out of thin air and a monetary market that's kept a certain rate trough admin interference, despite higher supply than demand.

This creates a e-economy that goes in against any basic law of RL economics. Even simple laws of supply and demand don't count here.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Stratigos Autokrator on 2012-12-14, 20:47

shadowukcs wrote:classic newbie mistake in thinking the economy in erep is similar to the one IRL.


Hate to break it for you, friend, but they pretty much destroyed the economy. You have invisible admin bots buying up oversuply with money made out of thin air and a monetary market that's kept a certain rate trough admin interference, despite higher supply than demand.

This creates a e-economy that goes in against any basic law of RL economics. Even simple laws of supply and demand don't count here.

I assume you are the newbie. It's not a bad thing to be a newbie anyways so don't get it as an insult.
The erep economics have been proved to lead to a dead end without an interference from the 'outside'. No one should try to apply or compare(in your case) RL economics with erepublik.
You are not trying to solve the economic side of the game in general but to boost the economy in e-Belgium.

You act like you don't know that the model is this way cause they want people to tank.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Kylero on 2012-12-14, 20:49

Actually what you described is a lot like RL...see Federal Reserve Laughing
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Olv007 on 2012-12-14, 20:52

Just arriving and saying that Shadowukcs (one of the oldest eRep player) is a newbie...

Well, you know how to make an entry in a community...
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-12-14, 21:42

Stratigos Autokrator wrote:

I assume you are the newbie. It's not a bad thing to be a newbie anyways so don't get it as an insult.
The erep economics have been proved to lead to a dead end without an interference from the 'outside'. No one should try to apply or compare(in your case) RL economics with erepublik.
You are not trying to solve the economic side of the game in general but to boost the economy in e-Belgium.

You act like you don't know that the model is this way cause they want people to tank.


to your first part: You couldn't be more wrong. I remember when erep economics didn't run on "outside interference" and the economics -part of this game was amongst the best I've seen in any game out there. (beta, early V1) . All this game needs is to abolish WaM. But I'm sure you where around then as well, innit?

Secondly: you're the one bringing in RL economics in the equation by thinking that there even is such thing as a international market and that many foreign sellers specifically look for this market to sell. IRL, lowering import taxes leads to an influx of foreign sellers on the market. Realisticly, barely anyone notices eBelgium and of the few that do, the majority can't be arsed to check the tax rates every week. Most of the few foreign sellers that we do have are regulars that just post up offers on many markets to cause a spread of their oversupply of goods in the hopes to sell as much to a crippled system called the admin bot. And as for reassuring foreigners that import taxes won't change, I love to see that happen.

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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Stratigos Autokrator on 2012-12-14, 22:52

[quote="shadowukcs"]
Stratigos Autokrator wrote:
to your first part: You couldn't be more wrong. I remember when erep economics didn't run on "outside interference" and the economics -part of this game was amongst the best I've seen in any game out there. (beta, early V1) . All this game needs is to abolish WaM. But I'm sure you where around then as well, innit?

Secondly: you're the one bringing in RL economics in the equation by thinking that there even is such thing as a international market and that many foreign sellers specifically look for this market to sell. IRL, lowering import taxes leads to an influx of foreign sellers on the market. Realisticly, barely anyone notices eBelgium and of the few that do, the majority can't be arsed to check the tax rates every week. Most of the few foreign sellers that we do have are regulars that just post up offers on many markets to cause a spread of their oversupply of goods in the hopes to sell as much to a crippled system called the admin bot. And as for reassuring foreigners that import taxes won't change, I love to see that happen.

We are not talking about the distant past my friend. Things changed a lot and more changes will happen in the near future.
I wasn't around back then still those changes occurred on your watch. Nothing you could really do apart from quitting or apply the Darwin theory.

I am sorry to let you down but those were just 'options'... not trying to associate it to rl economics, cause if I did we would be talking about IMF.
I know you know your game but you don't need to look down on other people. When we discuss about economy like it or not it will involve many other aspects of this game.
Just by increasing/decreasing taxes it wouldn't make much different for the community, I already stated that in a previous post.

Let me ask you shadowukcs, where do you want to see e-Belgium at the end of the day Neutral


Last edited by Stratigos Autokrator on 2012-12-14, 22:54; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Meow)
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-12-15, 02:27

simple: conquering eNL
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Jofroi on 2012-12-15, 13:02

shadowukcs wrote:simple: conquering eNL

I'll create a new party for that in a couple of hours Wink.

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Re: MoF Update?

Post by shadowukcs on 2012-12-15, 13:28

Call it "burn holland, burn" (BHB)
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Lily Jayne Summers on 2012-12-15, 13:49

Poor Holland.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Eco Freak on 2012-12-15, 17:55

Belgium's Foreign policy in a nut shell: Burn Holland!

Time to report back to the eUK Wink
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by NLSP on 2012-12-16, 16:59

Eco Freak wrote:Belgium's Foreign policy in a nut shell: Burn Holland!

Time to report back to the eUK Wink
I can agree with that Smile
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Nohjis on 2012-12-19, 17:35

shadowukcs wrote:Even simple laws of supply and demand don't count here.

Classic oldtimer mistake. The bot is dead in the weapons market, the only part you would want to get taxes out of. That being said, there is no demand in eBelgium so you're going to be screwed as long as all of the oldtimers keep selling on the blackmarket and keep buying in ePoland.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by cliffie on 2012-12-19, 23:41

Nohjis wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Even simple laws of supply and demand don't count here.

Classic oldtimer mistake. The bot is dead in the weapons market, the only part you would want to get taxes out of. That being said, there is no demand in eBelgium so you're going to be screwed as long as all of the oldtimers keep selling on the blackmarket and keep buying in ePoland.

blackmarket should be taxed. or simply outlawed by the admins.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Lily Jayne Summers on 2012-12-20, 02:23

cliffie wrote:
Nohjis wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Even simple laws of supply and demand don't count here.

Classic oldtimer mistake. The bot is dead in the weapons market, the only part you would want to get taxes out of. That being said, there is no demand in eBelgium so you're going to be screwed as long as all of the oldtimers keep selling on the blackmarket and keep buying in ePoland.

blackmarket should be taxed. or simply outlawed by the admins.

Good luck with that.

Govt's struggle to stop that in rl, let alone eRepublik.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by cliffie on 2012-12-20, 14:49

Lily Jayne Summers wrote:
cliffie wrote:
Nohjis wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Even simple laws of supply and demand don't count here.

Classic oldtimer mistake. The bot is dead in the weapons market, the only part you would want to get taxes out of. That being said, there is no demand in eBelgium so you're going to be screwed as long as all of the oldtimers keep selling on the blackmarket and keep buying in ePoland.

blackmarket should be taxed. or simply outlawed by the admins.

Good luck with that.

Govt's struggle to stop that in rl, let alone eRepublik.

differently than in rl, in eRepublik if the admins want, they can do it.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Yannis on 2012-12-20, 17:48

cliffie wrote:
Lily Jayne Summers wrote:
cliffie wrote:
Nohjis wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Even simple laws of supply and demand don't count here.

Classic oldtimer mistake. The bot is dead in the weapons market, the only part you would want to get taxes out of. That being said, there is no demand in eBelgium so you're going to be screwed as long as all of the oldtimers keep selling on the blackmarket and keep buying in ePoland.

blackmarket should be taxed. or simply outlawed by the admins.

Good luck with that.

Govt's struggle to stop that in rl, let alone eRepublik.

differently than in rl, in eRepublik if the admins want, they can do it.


The only way I can see them really stop the black market is to delete the 'donate food & weapons' function, and I don't think they will.
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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Critically on 2012-12-20, 18:50

Yannis wrote:
cliffie wrote:
Lily Jayne Summers wrote:
cliffie wrote:
Nohjis wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Even simple laws of supply and demand don't count here.

Classic oldtimer mistake. The bot is dead in the weapons market, the only part you would want to get taxes out of. That being said, there is no demand in eBelgium so you're going to be screwed as long as all of the oldtimers keep selling on the blackmarket and keep buying in ePoland.

blackmarket should be taxed. or simply outlawed by the admins.

Good luck with that.

Govt's struggle to stop that in rl, let alone eRepublik.

differently than in rl, in eRepublik if the admins want, they can do it.


The only way I can see them really stop the black market is to delete the 'donate food & weapons' function, and I don't think they will.

or to put a "taxation" on donating things :p donation tax :p would be fun xd

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Re: MoF Update?

Post by Eco Freak on 2012-12-22, 20:10

Critically wrote:
Yannis wrote:
cliffie wrote:
Lily Jayne Summers wrote:
cliffie wrote:
Nohjis wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Even simple laws of supply and demand don't count here.

Classic oldtimer mistake. The bot is dead in the weapons market, the only part you would want to get taxes out of. That being said, there is no demand in eBelgium so you're going to be screwed as long as all of the oldtimers keep selling on the blackmarket and keep buying in ePoland.

blackmarket should be taxed. or simply outlawed by the admins.

Good luck with that.

Govt's struggle to stop that in rl, let alone eRepublik.

differently than in rl, in eRepublik if the admins want, they can do it.


The only way I can see them really stop the black market is to delete the 'donate food & weapons' function, and I don't think they will.

or to put a "taxation" on donating things :p donation tax :p would be fun xd

I love the idea of a donation tax Very Happy Maybe donated food and weapons could get taxed so some go to a government org or something? (along with money and gold of course Razz)
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