Lack of political discourse

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Lack of political discourse

Post by Nohjis on 2013-04-04, 17:53

Take this as an interested outsider's point of view. I find the lack of political discourse sad in the eBe of today.

For instance, Goopy's proposal to redistribute the entire treasury has never really been discussed and everything is being done to keep as much money in the state accounts as possible. That to me is a real political discussion point, do you want to live in fear or do you allow to let go of something you're afraid to lose by replacing it with a different risk ? The next is asking yourselves how fast are you willing to let money go.

Next are the recurrent expenses, currently eBelgium has 4 MPPs, a huge expense on the military and a relatively cheap redistribution program for very young and relatively young players. The game has changed a lot over the past months with the addition of Bonus experience in rocket factories and Guerilla fights for instance. You may or may not enjoy the new features, a new player is born with them and sees them as a logical part of the game. Has there been any reflection on how Guerilla fighting can be stimulated so that young players gain more rank with less experience and less food/tank expenses ?

Currently I see a stand-still in the forum games and no in game contests. Who's bringing the "fun" to this community ?

The longer comments on articles allow to have some sort of debates in game nowadays too, has there been a single attempt since that change to bring the debate closer to the people without it being fighting over who should have what position ?

Your goal as politicians shouldn't be to keep the status quo, it is to keep evolving, look at new ideas and evaluate them. Your goals can be to make this country a more pleasant place or to make it stronger.

New players need to be taken under the wings of older players that can motivate them and allow them to develop their ideas. It seems this has somewhat watered down over time. The only players managing to catch the attention of political hopefulls seem to be Vincent Pain, shadowukcs and aVegan who are all disgruntled for a number of different reasons. Even if their discourse isn't very well constructed, I'm not surprised to find new players turn to be radical fast as noone seems to have worked on keeping an active communication for some time. Even I (and I don't have access to congress) can feel there are no "new" ideas being discussed since I have left eBelgium.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by MaryamQ on 2013-04-04, 18:11

Thank you, Nohjis. I receive this as a wake up call, time to re-evaluate what we are doing and how we are doing it. I hope others will do the same. Wink You remain one of the smartest and wisest of my friends and the friends of eBe. I am going to consider some of your points and come back to this discussion.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by shadowukcs on 2013-04-04, 22:45

or maybe it's time to look at these "radicals" and see that when they are saying that there are some serious problems in eBE with a ruling elite who grasp on their power and their made-up laws to punish those they don't like or don't agree with is more of a problem than previously thought?
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by Nohjis on 2013-04-04, 23:23

shadowukcs wrote:or maybe it's time to look at these "radicals" and see that when they are saying that there are some serious problems in eBE with a ruling elite who grasp on their power and their made-up laws to punish those they don't like or don't agree with is more of a problem than previously thought?

In a certain sense yes, but I don't believe punishment for actions that are deemed wrong is the actual issue. You may pretend you feel unfairly punished but I don't think you were or even that you believe you were. We have very different values when it comes to the organisation of fake societal structures. Wink

That is not to say that one view should just be imposed, I'ld favor a far larger debate then one or two people stating how it is (on either side of the argument) and the rest only voting on it. In the end that kind of debates only become personal leading to rash actions leading again to what was understood as fair punishment. Which is why I put in at least two issues above that come from these "radicals" I feel were never really given a chance but which do have merrit. (state money and the fear of losing control over it // ingame debates to connect to more people (like Jens Leupe for instance)).

P.S.: Note that I don't have the intention to move back to eBe, I can just rant out of my ivory tower¨without looking to achieve a specific political goal outside of seeing you guys have a more fun environment and bridging some of the gap I'm also in part responsible for. Razz
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by shadowukcs on 2013-04-07, 03:53

Those "radicals" and disgruntled players just got 46% of the population behind them.


Seems there is a wider part of the population thinking there is something wrong with the current balance of power and how made up laws are more important than IG laws.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by Viridi on 2013-04-07, 04:19

shadowukcs wrote:Those "radicals" and disgruntled players just got 46% of the population behind them.

Unfortunately, you're one of them.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by Jens Leupe on 2013-04-07, 11:52

Thanks for your opinion Nohjis.
It's my task to bring back the fun ingame!
I'm waiting for a budget, so that I can work out some sort of championship, with prizes.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by Teddy beer eBe on 2013-04-07, 12:21

I think you should ask the congress.

We removed the line about the budget granted to the lottery.

The debate
http://www.erepbelgium.com/t8389-state-budget-law-amendment

The vote
http://www.erepbelgium.com/t8407-state-budget-law-amendment
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by shadowukcs on 2013-04-07, 13:33

Viridi wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Those "radicals" and disgruntled players just got 46% of the population behind them.

Unfortunately, you're one of them.


why is that unfortunate?
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by MaryamQ on 2013-04-07, 14:38

Jens Leupe wrote:Thanks for your opinion Nohjis.
It's my task to bring back the fun ingame!
I'm waiting for a budget, so that I can work out some sort of championship, with prizes.

Tvvince is right. It is your ministry, and you have a right to ask the funds directly from Congress, although you might want to consult the CP and MoF first, just to make sure everything is agreeable. Just go to Congress debate and open a thread asking for what you want, with as much explanation as you are able to give as to what you would use the funds for.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by Viridi on 2013-04-07, 15:52

shadowukcs wrote:
Viridi wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Those "radicals" and disgruntled players just got 46% of the population behind them.

Unfortunately, you're one of them.


why is that unfortunate?

Because I used to think you were one of the good guys.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by shadowukcs on 2013-04-07, 17:03

Viridi wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:
Viridi wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Those "radicals" and disgruntled players just got 46% of the population behind them.

Unfortunately, you're one of them.


why is that unfortunate?

Because I used to think you were one of the good guys.

I never cared for being "the good guy". Besides, your definitions of "good" are void and biased.

There is no such thing as "the good guy". The ones you call "good guys" are the ones who accused Babyboom and HOPE of being PTO'ers, tried to block them from congress, ridiculed them, mocked them, refuse to cooperate with them....

All this because the sudden influx of babyboomers would cause a disruption in the powerbalance of some players here. I don't care for being a good guy. I'm just a guy who sees how some people here have been holding power endlessly and would do anything to keep this power, and I'm the one who acts and supports those who mean to end it.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by tommot on 2013-04-07, 17:19

Viridi wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:
Viridi wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:Those "radicals" and disgruntled players just got 46% of the population behind them.

Unfortunately, you're one of them.


why is that unfortunate?

Because I used to think you were one of the good guys.
Well, now you know..... NEVER forget. Very Happy

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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by Olv007 on 2013-04-07, 21:54

shadowukcs wrote:
There is no such thing as "the good guy". The ones you call "good guys" are the ones who accused Babyboom and HOPE of being PTO'ers, tried to block them from congress, ridiculed them, mocked them, refuse to cooperate with them....

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the previous and current government I see people of HOPE. So I'm not sure if your argument about refusing to cooperate with them is very correct.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by Critically on 2013-04-07, 22:00

Olv007 wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:
There is no such thing as "the good guy". The ones you call "good guys" are the ones who accused Babyboom and HOPE of being PTO'ers, tried to block them from congress, ridiculed them, mocked them, refuse to cooperate with them....

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the previous and current government I see people of HOPE. So I'm not sure if your argument about refusing to cooperate with them is very correct.

But not everyone from HOPE/BB are true members as they have friends in other parties. Coryn said that before Smile

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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by Nohjis on 2013-04-08, 01:40

shadowukcs wrote:Those "radicals" and disgruntled players just got 46% of the population behind them.

Seems there is a wider part of the population thinking there is something wrong with the current balance of power and how made up laws are more important than IG laws.

Forum laws affect forum.
IRC laws affect IRC.
IG laws affect IG.

Seems to me there is not a single made up law more important than IG laws. The made up laws affect how you can operate on the forum or on IRC and have no effect whatsoever IG. The forum is an optional made up community outside of the game, based on certain eRep realities. This forum has a different set of rules, if you don't like some, get them changed, unlike IG it isn't that difficult to convince people "in charge" here. Stop pretending you're letting your IG experience be affected by anything said on the forum unless you started by getting the forum involved yourself.

If anything, you're the one trying to import rules from somewhere else to this forum where you have no means of enforcing them.

Aside from that, with all that democratic weight you're still attempting to force a divide out here,... why not attempt to have a serious discussion on a subject those "46%" are interested in in game ? I'm sure you're intelligent enough to start one.

All of you really need to move beyond the "but they're meanies" kind of attitude and either propose things and discuss them or perhaps accept that you're an "interwebz meanie" and live with the consequences. It's not because it's a game that the PC will just let you win, there's other people who're also behind their PCs trying to win.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by goopypants on 2013-04-08, 09:10

Nohjis wrote:For instance, Goopy's proposal to redistribute the entire treasury has never really been discussed and everything is being done to keep as much money in the state accounts as possible. That to me is a real political discussion point, do you want to live in fear or do you allow to let go of something you're afraid to lose by replacing it with a different risk ? The next is asking yourselves how fast are you willing to let money go.

Until the treasury is disbursed, there is the omni-present organized PTO threat of robbery, and any "outside" candidates, legitimate or otherwise, will be marginalized as a threat rather than risk losing the treasury.

Which blocks any new wave of political activists from successfully having a CP, there always being a reactionary move to block any untested CP candidates.

Which is why the treasury needs to be distributed to those who contributed to it, rather than acting as permanent block to meaningful political change.
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Re: Lack of political discourse

Post by Jens Leupe on 2013-04-08, 10:53

MaryamQ wrote:
Jens Leupe wrote:Thanks for your opinion Nohjis.
It's my task to bring back the fun ingame!
I'm waiting for a budget, so that I can work out some sort of championship, with prizes.

Tvvince is right. It is your ministry, and you have a right to ask the funds directly from Congress, although you might want to consult the CP and MoF first, just to make sure everything is agreeable. Just go to Congress debate and open a thread asking for what you want, with as much explanation as you are able to give as to what you would use the funds for.

Ok, I'll do that. But I had consulted the CP and MoF, to make sure they agree.
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