Case study !
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Case study !
by Jery 2011-08-22, 11:49
Being confronted to important choices, I submit my case to you. That will be very helpfull for me, and maybe fun for old players and interesting for new ones.
Here's my actual situation :
I've got 25 gold and 6.000 BEF.
Possibilities :
- Building a second Food Factory (10 gold)
- Building a Weapon Factory (10 gold)
- Building another Fishery (10 gold)
- Building a Aluminium mine (10 gold)
- Waiting a bit to build a Cattle Farm (7.500 BEF)
- Waiting a bit to build a Salpeter Mine (7.500 BEF)
Obviously, I can make one of these or buying a new land for 1.000 BEF and make two of these.
Another option is also to upgrade my food company to the second level (20 gold).
My opinion :
I'm not sure, but I probably made a mistake by buying a Iron Mine. And now I'd rather orient my production to food companies. So my basic idea is to build another Food factory, and buying another land to build a Cattle Farm.
What do you think about my situation ?
Here's my actual situation :
I've got 25 gold and 6.000 BEF.
Possibilities :
- Building a second Food Factory (10 gold)
- Building a Weapon Factory (10 gold)
- Building another Fishery (10 gold)
- Building a Aluminium mine (10 gold)
- Waiting a bit to build a Cattle Farm (7.500 BEF)
- Waiting a bit to build a Salpeter Mine (7.500 BEF)
Obviously, I can make one of these or buying a new land for 1.000 BEF and make two of these.
Another option is also to upgrade my food company to the second level (20 gold).
My opinion :
I'm not sure, but I probably made a mistake by buying a Iron Mine. And now I'd rather orient my production to food companies. So my basic idea is to build another Food factory, and buying another land to build a Cattle Farm.
What do you think about my situation ?
- Version française:
- Etant confronté à d'importants choix, je vous soumets mon cas Ca me sera très utile d'avoir vos avis, et ce sera peut-être également amusant pour les vieux joueurs et intéressant pour les nouveaux.
Voici ma situation actuelle :
J'ai 25 gold et 6.000 BEF.
Possibilités :
- Construire une deuxième "Food Factory" (10 gold)
- Construire une "Weapon Factory" (10 gold)
- Construire une deuxième "Fishery" (10 gold)
- Construire une "Aluminium mine" (10 gold)
- Attendre un peu pour construire une "Cattle Farm" (7.500 BEF)
- Attendre un peu pour construire une "Salpeter Mine" (7.500 BEF)
Evidemment, je peut faire l'un de ces choix ou acheter un nouveau terrain (pour 1.000 BEF) et faire deux de ces choix.
Une autre option est aussi d'améliorer mon entreprise de nourriture (Food Company) pour la faire atteindre le 2ème niveau (20 gold).
Mon avis :
Je n'en suis pas sûr, mais j'ai probablement fait une erreur en construisant une "Iron Mince". Et maintenant j'opterai plutôt pour orienter ma production vers la nourriture. Donc mon idée actuelle est de construire une autre "Food Factory", et d'acheter un nouveau terrain en plus pour y construire une "Cattle Farm".
Et vous, que pensez-vous de ma situation ?
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Re: Case study !
by Jofroi 2011-08-22, 12:07
The question is to know if you have a wellness limitation or a money limitation.
In this particular case I think that the limitative factor is the cash.
Another question is if you want to maximize your profit or if you want to consume your production to fight more. I'll consider a "more fight" first.
2 Q1 food produce 480 wellness, while 1 Q2 food produce exactly the same.
However, a new Q1 food cost 10 gold + 1 land < 20 gold required to have a Q2 food. But when you will work, you'll require 10 more wellness (=5 Q1 food, not much and the gap will only be filled in in a very long time. Moreover you can try to sell your Q1 company later if you need cash (even if I doubt that anyone will buy it)).
As you only have a fishery, you'll however have to buy some raw from the market.
Now if you want to make more money (which could allow you to buy food and might allow you to fight more), I think that the best is to build a Cattle (maybe sell some gold to buy BEF
).
Indeed, with a cattle, you produce 245 FRM. Which worth 245*0.38 = 93.1 BEF at current market price (might change).
If you compare with Q1 food, you profit will be: 140*0.66-140*0.38 (minus taxes)=39.2 BEF.
If you upgrade your Q1 food to a Q2, your profit will be: 140*1.36-140*2*0.38 = 84 BEF (knowing that you already had a Q1 company and that's product that you won't sell).
It seems obvious that the cattle is the best choice. Even if the price goes down to 0.34 you would still make profit compared to Q1 food. (47.6 vs 44.8-taxes).
As you see, there is a far bigger volatility for the Cattle, but there are more hopes of profit.
In this particular case I think that the limitative factor is the cash.
Another question is if you want to maximize your profit or if you want to consume your production to fight more. I'll consider a "more fight" first.
2 Q1 food produce 480 wellness, while 1 Q2 food produce exactly the same.
However, a new Q1 food cost 10 gold + 1 land < 20 gold required to have a Q2 food. But when you will work, you'll require 10 more wellness (=5 Q1 food, not much and the gap will only be filled in in a very long time. Moreover you can try to sell your Q1 company later if you need cash (even if I doubt that anyone will buy it)).
As you only have a fishery, you'll however have to buy some raw from the market.
Now if you want to make more money (which could allow you to buy food and might allow you to fight more), I think that the best is to build a Cattle (maybe sell some gold to buy BEF
).Indeed, with a cattle, you produce 245 FRM. Which worth 245*0.38 = 93.1 BEF at current market price (might change).
If you compare with Q1 food, you profit will be: 140*0.66-140*0.38 (minus taxes)=39.2 BEF.
If you upgrade your Q1 food to a Q2, your profit will be: 140*1.36-140*2*0.38 = 84 BEF (knowing that you already had a Q1 company and that's product that you won't sell).
It seems obvious that the cattle is the best choice. Even if the price goes down to 0.34 you would still make profit compared to Q1 food. (47.6 vs 44.8-taxes).
As you see, there is a far bigger volatility for the Cattle, but there are more hopes of profit
.
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Re: Case study !
by Jery 2011-08-22, 12:41
Thanks Jofroi for your help on analyzing this.
I just want to keep fighting as I can while increasing my money over the time to build more stuff. And if it takes me more time than a "all for fight" or "all for money", I don't really care. I'll be more complete anyway.
Food produced => fight
Raw surpluses => profit for investment
Well, I think the way I do it is pretty common. The majority of players are doing it this way, aren't they ? (I did not say "all players")
For the rest, I understood your analysis. Already thought about some of your reasonings, and other parts are new to me.
So, what I got is :
- A second Q1 food better than an uprpade to Q2 food (except on very long term).
- Cattle farm better than another Fishery (implicitily).
=> I'll make all of it, starting with a Cattle Farm.
1) I wait to have 7.500 BEF => Cattle Farm
2) When I have another 1.000 BEF => New land and another Q1 company.
Basically what I thought about. Sounds good ?
I'm in a middle. I do not play this game for "100% fighting" or "100% profit". Which means that I simply use the food that I produce for fighting (I don't sell any food at the market), but I sell all my raw surpluses every day to increase my money. And I do not use that money to buy food for fighting, but I keep it to invest later in new buildings.Jofroi wrote:Another question is if you want to maximize your profit or if you want to consume your production to fight more. I'll consider a "more fight" first.
I just want to keep fighting as I can while increasing my money over the time to build more stuff. And if it takes me more time than a "all for fight" or "all for money", I don't really care. I'll be more complete anyway.
Food produced => fight
Raw surpluses => profit for investment
Well, I think the way I do it is pretty common. The majority of players are doing it this way, aren't they ? (I did not say "all players")
For the rest, I understood your analysis. Already thought about some of your reasonings, and other parts are new to me.
So, what I got is :
- A second Q1 food better than an uprpade to Q2 food (except on very long term).
- Cattle farm better than another Fishery (implicitily).
=> I'll make all of it, starting with a Cattle Farm.
1) I wait to have 7.500 BEF => Cattle Farm
2) When I have another 1.000 BEF => New land and another Q1 company.
Basically what I thought about. Sounds good ?
Last edited by Jery on 2011-08-22, 21:16; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Case study !
by Jofroi 2011-08-22, 13:00
Yep. Actually, the Q1 food difference will be 5 Q1 food/day => in 140/5 days =28 days, the difference will be filled in.
But if you consider the 10 extra gold cost, then u're good for a while^^.
Now you could wonder also if 1 cattle is better than 2 Q3 raw. And I think that's better to have 2 Q3 raw than 1 cattle.
But if you consider the 10 extra gold cost, then u're good for a while^^.
Now you could wonder also if 1 cattle is better than 2 Q3 raw. And I think that's better to have 2 Q3 raw than 1 cattle.
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Re: Case study !
by Jery 2011-08-22, 13:21
Hmmmm... So according to my accounts, why not a Q1 food factory (10 gold) + a Q3 raw food (10 gold) + a Q4 raw food (7.500 BEF) ?Jofroi wrote:Now you could wonder also if 1 cattle is better than 2 Q3 raw. And I think that's better to have 2 Q3 raw than 1 cattle.
Buying two more lands, this should be possible. Not immediately, but at short term.
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Re: Case study !
by Jofroi 2011-08-22, 13:44
Yep, that's a possibility . You'd have a mix.
Now as I already told you, you should check the gold/BEF exchange rate. There was a time when the cost of a cattle was less than 10 gold^^
. You'd have a mix.Now as I already told you, you should check the gold/BEF exchange rate. There was a time when the cost of a cattle was less than 10 gold^^
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Re: Case study !
by shadowukcs 2011-08-22, 14:59
Go for food and WRM
Also: I don't know who offered a Q2 job on the market but he can't possibly make a profit. Either he's making a loss or you are underpaid.
Who's your employer (for the Q2 weapons company) and how much are you paid?
Also: I don't know who offered a Q2 job on the market but he can't possibly make a profit. Either he's making a loss or you are underpaid.
Who's your employer (for the Q2 weapons company) and how much are you paid?
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Re: Case study !
by Jery 2011-08-22, 15:23
WRM = Weapon Raw Material ? Why "Weapon RM" and not "Food RW" ?
I've got 90.90 BEF (that's what I receive after taxes).
But I confess that I never really analyzed that... (too busy preventing Elynea from drinking my rum).
I've got 90.90 BEF (that's what I receive after taxes).
But I confess that I never really analyzed that... (too busy preventing Elynea from drinking my rum).
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Re: Case study !
by Elynea 2011-08-22, 15:38
Jery wrote:WRM = Weapon Raw Material ? Why "Weapon RM" and not "Food RW" ?
I've got 90.90 BEF (that's what I receive after taxes).
But I confess that I never really analyzed that... (too busy preventing Elynea from drinking my rum).
Sure if you put your rum on the table, i'm in the obligation to drink it... solidarity :p
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Re: Case study !
by shadowukcs 2011-08-22, 15:59
Jery wrote:WRM = Weapon Raw Material ? Why "Weapon RM" and not "Food RW" ?
I've got 90.90 BEF (that's what I receive after taxes).
But I confess that I never really analyzed that... (too busy preventing Elynea from drinking my rum).
my bad. I meant FRM (been up since 3 AM and I just had 2 exams so I'm completely useless today)
Also, however you boss is, he's a giant retard as he's making a loss on you
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Re: Case study !
by Jofroi 2011-08-22, 16:05
And you're underpaid. Come work for me and u'll have 100 BEF or more (and u'll gain a political message once a month, that you are free to follow or not :p).
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Re: Case study !
by Jery 2011-08-22, 21:27
shadowukcs wrote:Also, however you boss is, he's a giant retard as he's making a loss on you
Interesting.Jofroi wrote:And you're underpaid. Come work for me and u'll have 100 BEF or more.
Explain this paradox to me ! How can he make a loss on me and at the same time Jofroi says I'm underpaid (and being ready to give me more) ?
I guess the solution of this paradox has something to do with the difference of quality of the products produced !
But I read somewhere that a new player had to work for a "1 star" factory. True ? What's the reason ? And if that's true, why Jofroi proposes me more ?
And what's the real solution of the Shadow/Jofroi paradox ?
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Re: Case study !
by Procuste 2011-08-22, 21:41
Jery wrote:
And what's the real solution of the Shadow/Jofroi paradox ?
No paradox at all. All their actions have a single purpose : fun.
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Re: Case study !
by Medrolke 2 2011-08-22, 21:45
1. Your boss in underpaying you because your wage is below the current market price (I think, I haven't worked in Belgium for like 6 months so I don't really pay attention to the market over here).
2. He is making a loss because, even though he's underpaying you, your wage is higher than the value of what you produce (again I assume based on what shadow said).
3. Jofroi has companies in sectors that are more profitable, so he can afford to pay you a higher wage.
4. I have no idea whether newbies have to work in Q1 companies or not. It used to be much better to work in low quality companies when you were young but the economic module has been overhauled 4 or 5 times since then so I'm not sure any more.
2. He is making a loss because, even though he's underpaying you, your wage is higher than the value of what you produce (again I assume based on what shadow said).
3. Jofroi has companies in sectors that are more profitable, so he can afford to pay you a higher wage.
4. I have no idea whether newbies have to work in Q1 companies or not. It used to be much better to work in low quality companies when you were young but the economic module has been overhauled 4 or 5 times since then so I'm not sure any more.
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Re: Case study !
by shadowukcs 2011-08-22, 22:07
1) yes. The current wage balances between 95-110
2) Exactly. His profit is like 40 BEF and he's paying you 90 BEF. So he's making a loss on you
3) You can come work for me too if you want
4) they removed work skill so newbies and oldies should all work in Q5 companies. The rest is not making a profit
2) Exactly. His profit is like 40 BEF and he's paying you 90 BEF. So he's making a loss on you
3) You can come work for me too if you want
4) they removed work skill so newbies and oldies should all work in Q5 companies. The rest is not making a profit
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Re: Case study !
by Jofroi 2011-08-22, 22:18
In Q5 weapons, I even pay 116 BEF/employee, but I don't have any place left in my company.
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Re: Case study !
by Jery 2011-08-22, 22:22
I repeat that I was talking about "after tax". My gross salary is 101 BEF. Taxes take 10,1 BEF and I receive 90,9 BEF.shadowukcs wrote:1) yes. The current wage balances between 95-110
So... when you talk about the current wage, are you talking about the gross salary (before tax) or the net one (after taxes) ?
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Re: Case study !
by goopypants 2011-08-23, 02:33
Jofroi wrote:In Q5 weapons, I even pay 116 BEF/employee, but I don't have any place left in my company.
Just do what they do in every other country... fire all your workers every day.
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Re: Case study !
by Jofroi 2011-08-23, 07:23
Nope, can't do that. I've 13 employees (4 inactives, but still ^^)
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Re: Case study !
by goopypants 2011-08-23, 15:37
Jofroi wrote:Nope, can't do that. I've 13 employees (4 inactives, but still ^^)
We'll, not cycling workers like other countries also keeps wages down as part of the secret shadow compact.
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Re: Case study !
by NLSP 2011-08-24, 10:22
Hey Jery,
according to your case study I would do the following if I were you (even if some people find that stupid)
1) build the 7500 BEF Food Raw Materials (=FRM) company
2) sing a song and dance a dance
3) sell your FRM daily on the market until you have enough BEF to buy a new land
4) Buy a new land
5) Drink a bottle of rum to celebrate your new land
6) build a new Q1 food company on that new land.
After that you can start to think about other stuff
according to your case study I would do the following if I were you (even if some people find that stupid)
1) build the 7500 BEF Food Raw Materials (=FRM) company
2) sing a song and dance a dance
3) sell your FRM daily on the market until you have enough BEF to buy a new land
4) Buy a new land
5) Drink a bottle of rum to celebrate your new land
6) build a new Q1 food company on that new land.
After that you can start to think about other stuff
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Re: Case study !
by Jery 2011-08-24, 14:00
That's basically what I planned to do... but with the new offer, it changes everything. Upgrading my Q1 food factory into Q2 is better than building a new one ! ^^
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Re: Case study !
by shadowukcs 2011-08-24, 14:06
NLSP wrote:Hey Jery,
according to your case study I would do the following if I were you (even if some people find that stupid)
1) build the 7500 BEF Food Raw Materials (=FRM) company
2) sing a song and dance a dance
3) sell your FRM daily on the market until you have enough BEF to buy a new land
4) Buy a new land
5) Drink a bottle of rum to celebrate your new land
6) build a new Q1 food company on that new land.
After that you can start to think about other stuff
stupid, I would use the limited offer to upgrade your current Q1 company to a Q2 (within the next 100 hours)
then save up for a FRM company.
If you can't get 10G within the next 100 hours tho I'd do what NLSP says
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Re: Case study !
by Jery 2011-08-25, 14:19
shadowukcs wrote:1) yes. The current wage balances between 95-110
I've been asking it a while ago, but I still don't know if y'all were talking "before tax" or "after tax". Do you pay 116 BEF or does the employee receive 116 BEF ?Jofroi wrote:In Q5 weapons, I even pay 116 BEF/employee, but I don't have any place left in my company.
Is my question too difficult to answer ? Do you need help ?
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Re: Case study !
by Fhaemita Malodorous 2011-08-25, 15:07
Jery wrote:shadowukcs wrote:1) yes. The current wage balances between 95-110I've been asking it a while ago, but I still don't know if y'all were talking "before tax" or "after tax". Do you pay 116 BEF or does the employee receive 116 BEF ?Jofroi wrote:In Q5 weapons, I even pay 116 BEF/employee, but I don't have any place left in my company.
Is my question too difficult to answer ? Do you need help ?
You pay 116 BEF, the employee receives less then that, 116 BEF minus income tax
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Re: Case study !
by Jofroi 2011-08-25, 16:57
When we speak about wages, it's indeed gross.
Anyway, shadow is right, currently is the right time to upgrade your companies^^. Anyway the reverse cost is the same than the upgrade cost so if you want, you can reserve at any time.
Anyway, shadow is right, currently is the right time to upgrade your companies^^. Anyway the reverse cost is the same than the upgrade cost so if you want, you can reserve at any time
.
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Re: Case study !
by NLSP 2011-08-25, 21:17
well this was suggest before the offer,shadowukcs wrote:NLSP wrote:Hey Jery,
according to your case study I would do the following if I were you (even if some people find that stupid)
1) build the 7500 BEF Food Raw Materials (=FRM) company
2) sing a song and dance a dance
3) sell your FRM daily on the market until you have enough BEF to buy a new land
4) Buy a new land
5) Drink a bottle of rum to celebrate your new land
6) build a new Q1 food company on that new land.
After that you can start to think about other stuff
stupid, I would use the limited offer to upgrade your current Q1 company to a Q2 (within the next 100 hours)
now it is of course better to upgrade your Q1 into a Q2
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Re: Case study !
by Jery 2011-08-27, 22:03
- Upgrading Q1 food factory into Q2 : done
- Building a Cattle (Q4 Food Raw Material) : done
- Building a Cattle (Q4 Food Raw Material) : done
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