Hey! What happened to my BLT?!

So last night solidified Rod Damon's rampant hypocrisy. You can cry all you want that Phoenix has tactical votes here but they only vote for neutral Belgians. NOT Phoenix supporters. EDEN wins 16 seats and you have the balls to call Phoenix the PTOers?!

It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't constantly put forward your propaganda about how evil Phoenix is PTOing Belgium regularly. YOU, Rod Damon, Director of the CIA and leader of Strategic Air Command (the US mobile voting force) and your EDEN buddies who don't even have the decency to take off their US military avatars while serving as Belgian congressmen, are the problem in Belgium.

Please stop deluding yourself and wasting gold on FAIL propaganda.


Read the exact same message with a cool relevant picture here

Lets vote it to top 5 and show all of Belgium the truth (I don't have all of SAC voting my articles even when they're about waffles!)

There was a deal, PHX broke it.

[significant self-redaction to preserve an appropriate and civil tone]

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote:There was a deal, PHX broke it.

[significant self-redaction to preserve an appropriate and civil tone]

For the sake of debate and open discussion, would you care to share with us the deal that you seem to know about?

So by them not removing 10 voters EDEN approves 20?!

Either way Phoenix doesn't put forth candidates they vote for real Belgians to keep EDEN from holding ALL the congress seats.

That is how an ATO works.

Voted, I agree with you on 100% !

But what about guys like Palodigon? Are you accusing him of PTO'ing Belgium too?!

He IS a real Belgian :S

I was speaking of foreigners here that have primary allegiances to Alliances and nations other than Belgium. No matter which alliance or country they support, Belgium must come first if you wish to represent it.

Otherwise it is a PTO!
I am not accusing all of the Free Belgium party, however it is obvious which members would support EDEN and the US over Belgium in an emergency.

Not all people who support PNX or EDEN are PTO'ers... They just allign with it.

People seem to confuse non-neutrality with PTO'ing.

I do agree with the fact that some of the people inside the Free Belgium party are perfectly reasonable people that are working for a better Belgium.

Secondly : THere was never an agreement about BLT, Rod Damon started them on his own and did what he wanted with thim. BfB never said that they endorsed him fully, only said : "do what you want, if it works ok". If he wanted it to work he had to negociate with the Hungarians, Russian, etc... directly. We don't give them orders... Blaming BfB for this is just ****, prove me there was a real agreement.

Thirdly, I warned for this situation. Do you really think they wouldn't have done it if the BLT would have worked? I am quite certain that exactly the same situations would have happened, it has already happened before (before BLT) and will happen again if he sees that you are not winning the CP elections.

He DID negotiate directly with the Hungarians and Russians and they removed zero voters after saying they would remove 10 to match the 10 that EDEN removed.

Why honor PHX's betrayal?

I certainly do not, however, blame the BfB. But there is a lot of hate and fear directed towards a party (FB) that has never worked in any other direction than the best interests of the eBelgian people and gets nothing but flack from paranoid bloviators who turn a blind eye to "foreigners" who suit their own party and purposes.

Only an agreement between EDEN and PHX will remove the tactical Belgians. No amount of rhetoric here will accomplish anything. The BLT talks were proposed and entered into by EDEN in good faith and were greeted with scorn by both PHX and an element of the eBelgian population so poisoned by hate and fear it ruins everything it touches. After PHX finally did sit down and agree to a symbolic first step they went on to completely betray both the specifics of the agreement and the spirit of negotiation at the first opportunity.

I'm sorry if this is harsh but I find the original post quite upsetting. We're all sad the BLT did not work out (so far, I have hope it may yet) but to wholly blame EDEN seems disingenuous at best.

By the way, where do you get your figures? I do not doubt you at all (I really mean that) I'd just like to see the raw data myself to satisfy my own curiosity.

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote: that has never worked in any other direction than the best interests of the eBelgian people

http://www.erepublik.com/en/Belgium/law/25221

I beg to differ, notice the avatar of the congressman proposing this legislation, look familiar? Its the same one on the 20 tactical voters approved by Rod and his cronies yesterday. And the 6 yes votes? Take a wild guess....

A month ago? A defeated possibly lulz proposition? And you somehow know exactly who voted for it? At the time did EDEN even have a majority? If not this is almost assuredly a lulz law. If they did and it still didn't pass then your one tiny shred of evidence is actually evidence of the opposite.

NB: "lulz propositions" are law proposals made by congresscritters at the end of term that are not intended to pass but only proposed because proposing laws gives the proposer experience points. When you are in congress you cannot travel to fight so congresscritters often propose wacky laws at end of term to make up for that.

Thank you Tacitus for your definition

I now appeal to the countless government officials to confirm that this was indeed a legitimate attempt to destroy Belgium. EDEN did not have a majority that's why it was not passed. It was absolutely not a "lulz" attempt and anyone else around at the time will vouch that it was not.

Gibberish45 wrote:Thank you Tacitus for your definition

I now appeal to the countless government officials to confirm that this was indeed a legitimate attempt to destroy Belgium. EDEN did not have a majority that's why it was not passed. It was absolutely not a "lulz" attempt and anyone else around at the time will vouch that it was not.

So you're saying that they thought they could pass a blatantly ridiculous and destructive law without even having a majority?

The mind boggles...

It's always the same "Phoenix that Eden that"...

Damn forget 'bout them all, We're belgian and nutral.

Main Entry: gib·ber·ish
Pronunciation: \ˈji-b(ə-)rish, ˈgi-\
Function: noun
Etymology: probably from gibber
Date: circa 1554

: unintelligible or meaningless language: a : a technical or esoteric language b : pretentious or needlessly obscure language


Pretty apt name

@ Tacitus

You were not around at the time and I understand why you don't care, you may read Manong's article (there were more by him but this is the most informative) and judge for yourself.

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/conspiracies-petty-actions--1188936/1/20

EDEN has always been vocal about their righteousness in defending a "PTO" from Phoenix (who has NEVER so much as put forth a candidate)

We still remember the numerous, destructive "lulz" proposals at a crucial time in Belgium's history. All I am doing is pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the situation. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who is bringing in votes for themselves....

Just check the last FOUR pages of citizenship approvals

humm

Before the discussion : The persons who had the nationality had returned to their country. Look votes. Total votes: 528 Presence: 42.86%

It proves that many voters (phoenix?) took back their nationality.

But for Eden, apparently, it's not the same. They gave nationalities for their friends.

Now, i know some americans make a good job, but why to have majority?

Rod, you prove in this elections, you have a strategy not only to work for belgium but to have the country for USA. What after? You put your president and bye bye real belgians? It's sad. You don't need the majority, you know that. You put trolls and i don't agree that.

Other persons were nice, and for the neutrality. Don't forget that, they were belgians.

Elynea

I am not quite so sure, but with the Czech situation yesterday, there may have been many last minute changes. Until a census can be reviewed, I would not be comfortable presuming that citizenship was given up. They may just be laying in wait.

Or perhaps the multi master was busy with other multis yesterday

As for the election. This is a game, and I tend to play to win. This is probably why I was being consulted or call on for about 1/6 of the elections in the game yesterday. Almost all had the desired outcomes achieved. Those that did not were pretty much screwed to start with and had hoped for a near miracle.

Proposing bad laws is not destructive. Using a majority to pass them would be. There's been an EDEN majority for weeks and still eBelgium is neutral and unplundered.

If some EDEN senators choose to go out badly it hardly points to a conspiracy of malice, just a lack of dignity and discipline.

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote:Proposing bad laws is not destructive. Using a majority to pass them would be. There's been an EDEN majority for weeks and still eBelgium is neutral and unplundered.

If some EDEN senators choose to go out badly it hardly points to a conspiracy of malice, just a lack of dignity and discipline.

That is a valid point Tacitus. I will also concede that Rod and the other EDEN congressmen have contributed to Belgium. However, my main concern has been and will always be that when the (edit) hits the fan, A majority of our current congress will promote another country's interests before our own.

If Rod was the best congressman to grace the eWorld it would not change his allegiance and therein lies the problem, Belgium deserves devoted officials who put Belgium before ALL ELSE!

Rod Damon wrote:Elynea

I am not quite so sure, but with the Czech situation yesterday, there may have been many last minute changes. Until a census can be reviewed, I would not be comfortable presuming that citizenship was given up. They may just be laying in wait.

Or perhaps the multi master was busy with other multis yesterday

As for the election. This is a game, and I tend to play to win. This is probably why I was being consulted or call on for about 1/6 of the elections in the game yesterday. Almost all had the desired outcomes achieved. Those that did not were pretty much screwed to start with and had hoped for a near miracle.

You can find all the info you want here : http://ereptools.net/census/demography/c/Belgium

The total amount of citizenships kept falling until a few days ago. I am pretty sure you know this site as you used it for your BLT things

Gibberish45 wrote:

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote:Proposing bad laws is not destructive. Using a majority to pass them would be. There's been an EDEN majority for weeks and still eBelgium is neutral and unplundered.

If some EDEN senators choose to go out badly it hardly points to a conspiracy of malice, just a lack of dignity and discipline.

That is a valid point Tacitus. I will also concede that Rod and the other EDEN congressmen have contributed to Belgium. However, my main concern has been and will always be that when the (edit) hits the fan, A majority of our current congress will promote another country's interests before our own.

If Rod was the best congressman to grace the eWorld it would not change his allegiance and therein lies the problem, Belgium deserves devoted officials who put Belgium before ALL ELSE!

I understand those concerns and I suppose there's not a lot that can be said that can allay them. I would just ask you to understand that right now we have a lot of common ground that we can build on for the betterment of the country and until it seems like some people are substantively working against the public good we should all be given the benefit of the doubt.

Apotygma wrote:

You can find all the info you want here : http://ereptools.net/census/demography/c/Belgium

The total amount of citizenships kept falling until a few days ago. I am pretty sure you know this site as you used it for your BLT things

I'm not entirely sure what all the terms on those graphs mean but it seems to me there was a spike in citizenship 8 days ago that corresponds to a sharp drop in average level. That suggests to me that those were not citizenship approvals but newbs.

I'm not saying there weren't a heap of Croatians moving in, the citizenship approval logs show that, I'm just saying I don't know what the erep tools graphs show.

I assume emigrants are people with Belgian citizenship living abroad? Or are they changes in citizenship? Because the Immigrants couldn't mean new citizenships because it doesn't show those Croats we know about, so the best guess is foreign citizenship-holders in residence. More appropriately Aliens and Ex-pats than Immigrants and Emigrants in that case. IDK. Anybody know for sure?

What I got out of it is that EDEN and Phoenix both have relatively equal numbers of voters here in Belgium. Only one has a congressional majority while crying wolf about the other however.

Gibberish45 wrote:What I got out of it is that EDEN and Phoenix both have relatively equal numbers of voters here in Belgium. Only one has a congressional majority while crying wolf about the other however.

Honnestly if FB got majority without giving out those 30 citizenships I would have congratulated them.

Gibberish45 wrote:What I got out of it is that EDEN and Phoenix both have relatively equal numbers of voters here in Belgium. Only one has a congressional majority while crying wolf about the other however.

It's not crying wolf to say that they haven't lived up to an agreement. Sure, the title of his article was an exaggeration but, come on, poetic (politic?) license.

Jarastlad wrote:It's always the same "Phoenix that Eden that"...

Damn forget 'bout them all, We're belgian and nutral.

The sooner we start fighting about taxes like everybody else the better!

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote:

Jarastlad wrote:It's always the same "Phoenix that Eden that"...

Damn forget 'bout them all, We're belgian and nutral.

The sooner we start fighting about taxes like everybody else the better!

You know, I agree with that but still I'm just sick of hearing about the people who are supposedly from Eden, trying to PTO Belgium and people who are supposedly from Phoenix who are trying to "protect" (or vice versa) Belgium from Eden.... I'm new at this game, but that dichotomy is really anoying. It is not constructive.