Committee of Neutrality

And the major alliances are spending resources here, primarily people would could be doing things else where, primarily people, with 50+ regions some foreign nations are very vulnerable to pto's and they would much rather those players be available domestically, plus all those players now in our congress can not fight at home.

First there is only 1 50+ country and that is the eUSA. They are not vulnerable to PTO's. Those that are vulnerable are countries under 1k citizens, and even then, if no PTOer is inside you are covered (each congressmen must not approve citizenships, but anyway).

Countries with less than 1k habitants are not present here, only eUNL you could say but you can be pretty sure that no PTO will be done there as congress is very strict about citizenships (which we are not if we see the amount given to US military)

And, to vote you don't need to move to a certain region. I was in Russia last CP elections and I could vote. Those military are at home and fighting in the essential battles. Military most of the time don't vote as politics don't interest them that much.

The citizenship is given to the US military BY the US military here in congress. I've seen Rod and the others do good things but no one can forget that they tried to destroy the country with the minimum wage proposal and false donations to fake orgs trying to frame Phoenix. It's like trying to rub a red wine stain out of a white cotton shirt.

Belgium cannot be neutral while pro-EDEN US military members sit in congress. Our main goal should be to remove the foreigners who damage our nation and elect truly neutral Belgians.

While Ragoth and I disagree on things, he is clearly a true neutral Belgian and is the type of congressman we need.

A nation with 50+ regions is vulnerable to foreign entities gaining seats due to so many regions even major parties have trouble fielding candidates in all of them meaning it is easy to both get on the ballot and, since the votes are spread so thin, doesn't take much to win, now even if the they were not needed at home, I'm fairly sure at least one member of the Free Belgium party is a general in the US armed forces, he doesn't want to be here where he can not fight for his country.

Now we can either bitch about their presence here which ironically makes them more likely to stay as contently complaining about just that one alliance makes us look like we support its rival, or we can try to do something so they will leave, proposing a contract like this looses us nothing if it fails, but gives them a reason to leave if it succeeds.

Before speaking about neutrality, about an alliance or the other one, it would be good to speak about a babyboom and about real Belgians which could join us.

If a debate goes anywhere, then that becomes a childish debate.

Elynea wrote:Before speaking about neutrality, about an alliance or the other one, it would be good to speak about a babyboom and about real Belgians which could join us.

If a debate goes anywhere, then that becomes a childish debate.

A babyboom and an influx of eBelgians is needed to furthermore soldify our neutrality , the more eBelgians we have the less chance of a future PTO , we should start posting articles in other eCountries telling eBelgians , who had left because of events in the past to return to their homeland.
And maybe somebody could advertise erepublik on some RL Belgian website's , to further increase numbers.

The word "babyboom" has been dropped very often lately, but it didn't make it happen so far. To attract new (and older) players, we need to make eBelgium an interesting enough place to come back to - now we have a shabby economy, no regular training wars, no cultural life and very limited media publications. I'm begining to wonder why I'm coming back
Furthermore, to keep the new babies in this unwelcoming circumstances we need to do our best to make their first days (a week and even longer actually) more interesting and easier to survive (I'm talking about social programs, most of which are private initiatives at the moment), and the current government wouldn't cope with a flood of newbies.
And about advertizing eRepublik on eBelgian forums, I know of some people who are trying to do that

Ragoth wrote:A nation with 50+ regions is vulnerable to foreign entities gaining seats due to so many regions even major parties have trouble fielding candidates in all of them meaning it is easy to both get on the ballot and, since the votes are spread so thin, doesn't take much to win, now even if the they were not needed at home, I'm fairly sure at least one member of the Free Belgium party is a general in the US armed forces, he doesn't want to be here where he can not fight for his country.

Now we can either bitch about their presence here which ironically makes them more likely to stay as contently complaining about just that one alliance makes us look like we support its rival, or we can try to do something so they will leave, proposing a contract like this looses us nothing if it fails, but gives them a reason to leave if it succeeds.

This is some of the most sensible stuff I've seen here written by anybody. A lot of EDEN supporters don't want to stay here (I'm an exception) but a lot of Russian-Belgian voters don't care where their citizenship is (we assume because they are multis or bots but who knows). This makes EDEN want some sort of solid guarantees that these people are giving up their citizenship but since that is very difficult to check up on (especially if they don't take part in the census) the next best thing is some sort of international and enforceable contract. Until then, in contrast to what Gibberish says, the ONLY way EDEN can guarantee Belgian neutrality is by maintaining a presence in congress that can block PHX MPPs. It is important to understand in any negotiation the other side's hopes and fears. It's all well and good to say "I think you're (edit), leave!" but it is not productive and it is not going to get anyone to go anywhere. Only by recognizing that EDEN can, in fact, stay as long as they want but that they actually want to leave can you begin to negotiate both sensibly and in good faith.

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote:. Until then, in contrast to what Gibberish says, the ONLY way EDEN can guarantee Belgian neutrality is by maintaining a presence in congress that can block PHX MPPs.

So you believe that there is a massive conspiracy and all of these voters with Belgian citizenship from Phoenix nations are a coordinated PTO force who are silently waiting for EDEN to leave (while endorsing the very neutral BfB in the meantime according to Rod) Then, as soon as EDEN gives up its majority in congress they will all awaken and load congress and even the CP with Phoenix members (probably Battlegazi himself), sign PHX MPPs and then have a good laugh about it


To speak with people who think like you do, click here

No no no gibberish, what he's saying is that there is no way EDEN can know that PHX won't do exactly what you said, even if the chances are ludicrously low there is still no guarantee that PHX wouldn't PTO us then.

Why not stay and support belgian candidates then like Phoenix has? I will also admit that the EDEN congress members have worked at rebuilding their image after the big destructive legislation scandal. I've said it before but Rod's BLT's are EPIC.

Maybe its the American military avatars, (I hate daniecox's awful belgian phoenix avatar too btw) but it just smacks of bias in a supposedly neutral country.

Too bad its pointless if the dutch invade, maybe neutrality is impossible in this game. Very depressing.

Like I explained to Rod also on IRC :

More PHOENIX will also never allow to lose a majority. You can all check the citizenship agreements, you will see that a lot of pro-EDEN congressmen agreed all their citizenships the day of the CP elections in order to vote for Shadowukcs and try to win.

They used this advantage (and their time zone advantage) to win more votes. You can also check that BfB congressmen (qualified as Pro-PHOENIX, which is not the case for all of us) never did this a day of elections. Thereby, the citizenships agreed, where all American Soldiers so we can doubt that they were all here to help us.

As Rod said on IRC (I have logs to pove it), : "There was a rush to win". Why will they not start over when all PHOENIX people left their citizenships. They did it before, why not again?

(I know, this can also prevail for more pro-PHOENIX people, but they didn't do it yet...)

I think Ragoth understands what I'm saying pretty well. There seems to be a lot of denial in the BFB about the existence of hundreds of PHX voters with Belgian citizenship who will vote for whomever Heidar or his bosses tell them to. Right now that's for an honest and neutral party but with all the sneaky moves we've seen PHX pull (North Korea, Denmark) it would be silly to ignore the possibility. That's why the BLT are not aimed at Belgians but at Hungarians, Servs, and Russians.

Gibberish45 wrote:Too bad its pointless if the dutch invade, maybe neutrality is impossible in this game. Very depressing.

Don't worry about the Dutch. Contrary to popular belief (at least on the USForums) there have been and continue to be successful models of neutrality in eRep. These are: Singapore, Ireland, and, until Servia decided to branch out, Denmark. What these countries have in common is low resources. So in that sense Belgium is blessed! (Low import taxes, manufacturing jobs, that's all that needs) There is mixed strategic value but the main thing is that they could all be bypassed. US, Canada, and UK could go around Ireland. Germany, the Scands, Hungary, and the UK could run up and down Jutland while bypassing Hovedstaden. And Indonesia can go around Singapore everytime they decide to invade Malaysia (what is that all about?). Here at the moment, with France and Germany more or less dead and the siege of the UK over our territories aren't especially valuable but they someday may be again. We could hunker down in Brussels like Denmark and let Flanders and Wallonia get periodically overrun by whichever side wanted to. We could even charge a fee to retreat. It's not pretty but it may be a way of making neutrality more practicable in the long run. Brussels will never have strategic value so putting a pair of Q5s there is a no-brainer as there is no conceivable reason other than conquest why anyone would want to take it. What we should not allow is long-term sitting in Flanders and Wallonia. Or not, as I said it is not pretty and it doesn't make me feel good, I'm just saying that it is a way. And more importantly, especially while we are not a strategic location, neutrality should be a lot easier to maintain. Low import taxes, good relations with both sides, training wars.

updated

I Preamble
The Purpose of this treaty is to both guaranty the neutrality and sovereignty of eBelgium and at the same time assure the members of both Major Alliances that eBelgium is not in danger of being occupied by the other alliance through a system of penalties to both side in the event of Belgian occupation by any party.

II. Definitions:
The Belgian Treasury is defined as the organisation designated through contract to act as the treasury for the government of eBelgium. Referred to henceforth as the "NBB"

Signed countries refers to members of a Major Alliance which have signed this contract [name] representing [country] and [name] representing [country].

Belgium is represented by [name]

Major Alliance refers to the EDEN and PHOENIX alliance and any possible successor alliances created for belligerent actions.

III Ratification
The Treaty shall be considered ratified by a country when it is signed by a designated representative of said country and voted in favor of by a majority of that country's congress members.

IV Legality
This treaty shall come into effect when ratified by the governments of Belgium and at least one member from each Major Alliance.

V Body
If at server reset on any day where a resistance war could be started in any of the 3 original Belgians regions and wasn't, each of the signed countries must pay 3x the cost of starting the most expensive resistance war currently possible in Belgium into the NBB within 24 hours or be fined 7x that cost plus the cost of a trial to be taken out of their central bank and put into the NBB.

In return the government of Belgium agrees not to join a Major Alliance or declare war against a member of a Major Alliance, and in this event the treaty will be considered to be voided.

In the event of the Belgian signatory modifying the text of the contract, the contract is considered null and void. In the case of the Belgian signatory being permanently banned Belgium has 7 days to appoint a new signatory or the treaty is considered null and void.

In the event of a signed country's representative modifies the treaty they are considered in violation of the treaty and have 24 hours to modify it back or they incur a penalty of 150 gold every 24 hours which they must pay to the NBB, if they do not pay this within 24 they incur a fine of 450 gold put into the NBB.

In the event of a signed country's representative being banned the signed country has 7 days to appoint a new signatory or they are considered in violation of the treaty and incur a penalty of 150 gold every 24 hours which they must pay to the NBB, if they do not pay this within 24 they incur a fine of 450 gold put into the NBB.

This contract is considered valid for 1 year unless the signatory for Belgium voids it or all signed country's representatives modify their post to read "I want to close this contract."

At any point any of the parties may change their signatory by having the old one modify their comment to read "No longer signatory" and having the new signatory sign.

Ragoth this is not you job.

Yeah, but Manong isn't playing anymore, we need someone to take the lead of the commitee.

Jofroi wrote:Yeah, but Manong isn't playing anymore, we need someone to take the lead of the commitee.

We should have a vote on who should be the next leader of the commitee.

I did a little counting, might have missed a few, and have some that need to be sorted still, but here are the # of Belgians in the 5 largest concentrations

Belgium - 561
USA - 250 +
Hungary - 250 +
Poland - 130 +
Russia - 130 +

With over 350 + that are split amongst other nations in varying degrees

Now all sides are slowly decreasing in numbers, but slowly is the problem. Belgian security and independence needs to have those numbers come down faster AND in unison.

In Efrance, you have too.

i think the stats of battles game are intresting to see that, But many are to return to their country.

Apotygma wrote:Ragoth this is not you job.

Do you want me to wait 12 hours for Elynea to become president and appoint me vice president officially for me to repost it ? I've made this my job because nobody else was bothering to do it.

Would be more faire (and I think you will have to agree with me). I think you will like that people respect your authority, even if it is ending in a few hours. And, FYI : you posted it before I knew that you would eventually become VP (as we never know).

Look, we really don't have a foreign minister so I was trying to be pro active in helping Belgium. I am getting somewhat annoyed by your negativity relating to this, how about some constructive criticism vs this constant negativity.

Ragoth, I liked it!!

Ragoth wrote:Look, we really don't have a foreign minister so I was trying to be pro active in helping Belgium. I am getting somewhat annoyed by your negativity relating to this, how about some constructive criticism vs this constant negativity.

The problem I have is that congress member think they can do everything around here. I do indeed agree that we don't have a MoFA, but the problem is that congress member then think they can do everything they want because there is noone officially in charge. I think by this at the tax proposals, every single congressmen comes up with proposals but the only one that has to make a tax policy is the MoF.

He is in charge of this (and should write a good plan). I think your ambition and will to help is good and I think your treaty isn't bad (even if it would not be legal as you cannot appoint 1 county responsible for all the others from one alliance, and that you cannot start a RW in Belgium so there is no legal way of defining the cost as it is not written inside the game module. Best is to propose a single fee, like 1 gold for every 20 eBE enhabitants), but if someone has to come up with this it is the MoFA (that will probably be appointed soon). It is his job to make those statments, propose one, etc... Not a congress member, this just to prevent double communication. Look at the taxes, they are a mess because everyone proposes.

Ah here is were the difference of opinions is, I believe that it is fine for anyone in congress to PROPOSE ideas on the forum, approval and execution those are in the realm of the minister. As for this contract the idea would be that the cost of the fine would be pegged to whatever the resistance war that could have but wasn't started cost, and you can calculate that as the formula for cost of a resistance war is 50+number of citizens in a region/4.

As for the problem with appointing one country from an alliance. those countries would not be representing their alliances just themselves, the alliances are only brought up to because this only works if there is balance to it. The idea being make it in the best interest of a powerful member of each alliance for Belgium not to be conquered, this will create a ripple affect as they would discourage other countries from occupying us, or if they didn't then either the other side would help liberate us, or they would pay us money so we could do it.

please if you want to propose or work on a contract, do so in the congress area. There is no point in doing it here.