Dutch Invasion

honderdjaar wrote:shadow all u want to do is blow up everything bad comming from eunl.

I'm not the only one saying something about this. I think many share t his concern.

honderdjaar wrote:that is ur right but dont expect people to not take u seriously.

The ppl who I want to take me serious, usually take me seriously. The others, I don't really care for what they think of me.

honderdjaar wrote:because u silence everybody in belgium who is pro-union.
if only one person is speaking about an union then there are 10 american soldiers ready to reply with 'hahaah for sure spain wont let that happen and they will invade us in 2 days, so watch out with ur words or we will invade again'

LOOL!!!

A) Seriously, if you feel intimidated or silenced by someone over a internet game, then you honestly need to do a check up by a psychiatrist coz then you are just plain sad and mentally f up.
B) If anyone does feel threatened by a dude, sitting kilometres away from you, behind his computer, let him speak now.
C) most ppl here are building something up. I doubt many want to throw that away by joining a crappy union again.

honderdjaar wrote:alot of people know that the union was good for both parties and u might have been one of the minority who was against but that doesnt give u the right to silence and throw mud at people who are in favour.

I think you are wrong in that. I know of many ppl in US, UK (malchert, Elbanaan, vettige,... ) and other countries who left because of the union.

Naturally those who stayed liked the union.

and still, your little union was no doubt fun while it lasted, but

A) it's not possible to remerge again
B) I think many ppl here don't want to merge again
C) as time will pass and more and more new players will join, the number of ppl who are pro-union will steadily decline more and more so personally, I'm not worried but I can understand you guys are and I see why you want to start the debate regarding this union as fast as possible because every day your chances of ever having it back are decreasing.
D) Ever heard of freedom of speech? I am against a union and I come out for that. Those who feel threatened by me over the internet, should really need to see doctor for a mental check-up
E) I'm growing tired of saying this, but I'll say it again: if we merge, then spain will stop it. It's a simple as that. This isn't threatening, this isn't throwing mud, this is stating the obvious, simple fact.

By the way, the poll has been removed off the eUNL forum. They know they can't do it now. Only if Belgium is truly free, talking about merging again makes sense.
And yes Shaduwthinges, you make people scared.

Shenken wrote:And yes Shaduwthinges, you make people scared.

If you feel scared about someone on the internet you have never met, never probably will meet and with whom you have never had face-to-face contact, you honestly should look take a "how to become more assertive course" coz then you have a serious issue imo.

shadow its also about reputation, u threaten people by distroying there ingame reputation by discrediting them as much as u can as u have showed in the post above.
however i knew this would happen and therefor accept ur discrediting.
however other people are real belgiums and dont have the luxury to get discredited like this because then they are discredited by countymen(however i doubt that us and uk guys should be count as countrymen, however u make it look like it).

I'm not the only one saying something about this. I think many share t his concern.

indeed u share this with all ur american friends who where send here to pto and are also really active on this forum and scaring the real belgiums to speak up.

The ppl who I want to take me serious, usually take me seriously. The others, I don't really care for what they think of me.

yea and that is maybe why the threads are so much scaring people? idk but maybe that is why nobody so far spoke for pro-union.

A) Seriously, if you feel intimidated or silenced by someone over a internet game, then you honestly need to do a check up by a psychiatrist coz then you are just plain sad and mentally f No up.
B) If anyone does feel threatened by a dude, sitting kilometres away from you, behind his computer, let him speak now.
C) most ppl here are building something up. I doubt many want to throw that away by joining a crappy union again.

a i am almost a doctor and i can tell u its really natural behaviour to try to fit in the group and go along with the majority however u are speaking here as if u are the majority, this is missleading and therefore u are threathing indeed. b no they are not speaking up to be picked upon, omg i just told the reason so plz stop asking for people to speak up for it, make an referendum or something.
c as i said before union had lots of good things and this is a fact and u are one of the few who dont like it but therefore its not right to call the union crappy because that where good times.

I think you are wrong in that. I know of many ppl in US, UK (malchert, Elbanaan, vettige,... ) and other countries who left because of the union.

sure some people left and some people probably came(that is how it goes), however u seem to forget that the majority wanted this for a good reason.
and do u think that belgians care about people from usa????

i never told u that we should merge now.
i only told u to stop telling bad stuff about the union, because u are blastering the union.
dont forget that most people wanted the union and i havent seen any prove of the majority wanting something else after that.

dont forget that most people wanted the union

You mean the 20 RL Belgians that were playing back then?

Keep in mind that this is eBelgium NOT RL Belgium. If people of other RL nationalities want to live here and become congressmen, then they can.

Innos28 wrote:

dont forget that most people wanted the union

You mean the 20 RL Belgians that were playing back then?

Keep in mind that this is eBelgium NOT RL Belgium. If people of other RL nationalities want to live here and become congressmen, then they can.

There were up to 400 people in the BP iirc...

And I think RL nationality matters. I'm sick and tired of those (edit), having no affiliation with RL Belgium whatsoever, coming over here just to PTO us or get an easy way into congress and telling us what do. Ignoring the eUNL heritage.

What happened to ThomasRED still disgusts me. And now, the same happens to Olv and Apotygma. To me, those people did more for the Belgian community than Manong.

edit by Innos28: please no insults - first warning

honderdjaar wrote: and they will invade us in 2 days, so watch out with ur words or we will invade again'

I love the way you call us delusional for thinking that you'd attack us but yet, here you are not shy at all about using it as a threaten. Well I won't stand for it! If you are so sure of your military power, then why not do it already and spare us this bickering of yours? Of course, you haven't done so because it is just that, bickering.

Eniotna there is indeed no room for you in eBelgium. Please stay in the eNetherlands.

so what did happen to ThomasRED?

Both Olv and Apotygma are doing a great job for eBelgium. I would not compare them to someone who hasn't done anything so far for the new eBelgium.

Innos28 wrote:so what did happen to ThomasRED?

Both Olv and Apotygma are doing a great job for eBelgium. I would not compare them to someone who hasn't done anything so far for the new eBelgium.

He was voted out of his functions during a questionable vote by a bunch of Americans. He thus didn't get the opportunity to do anything for eBelgium.

shadowukcs wrote:

Shenken wrote:And yes Shaduwthinges, you make people scared.

If you feel scared about someone on the internet you have never met, never probably will meet and with whom you have never had face-to-face contact, you honestly should look take a "how to become more assertive course" coz then you have a serious issue imo.

His avatar is Winnie the Pooh. Give the guy a break.

(just joking Shenken)

Now, OT:
eUNl made one major mistake.
Making "attacking eBe" and "trying to get a merge, unless they really don't wont it" one option. I can understand why some people would like it to be their peacefull, fun and bigger union if they can have a majority for that. I cannot understand why some people would like to do that with force.
eBelgium is here. Accept it, guys.

honderdjaar (srr Eniotna, my bad) wrote:c as i said before union had lots of good things and this is a fact and u are one of the few who dont like it but therefore its not right to call the union crappy because that where good times.

They maybe were good times.
Most important word in your sentence is 'WERE'
You must realise you cannot recreate the old union again. The eBe that agreed on it in the past does not exist anymore.
It's a totally new one. New people. New opinions.
If shadow says "join the crappy union", well then that's because the new union would have a large group who's against it. For that group, it's a crappy union.

honderdjaar wrote:shadow its also about reputation, u threaten people by distroying there ingame reputation by discrediting them as much as u can as u have showed in the post above.
however i knew this would happen and therefor accept ur discrediting.
however other people are real belgiums and dont have the luxury to get discredited like this because then they are discredited by countymen(however i doubt that us and uk guys should be count as countrymen, however u make it look like it).

IT'S A BLOODY FREE INTERNET BROWSER GAME. This isn't even me trying to discredit someone, this is the internet. If you can't cope with it, I'm sure ppl on www.chess.com or something like that will be nicer.... Seriously, if you think this is bad, there are some far worse forums out there (ever been to eUK's BBH forums?, 4chan,... ). I honestly fail to see how you can be intimidated over the internet. Maybe it's just me, but I honestly can't grasp it. I can understand you get intimidated IRL, but not over something as unrealistic as a game and certainly not by ppl you will never face in your life.


And if you think this is bad, you should see me when I turn on "internet-dickery"-mode

honderdjaar wrote:indeed u share this with all ur american friends who where send here to pto and are also really active on this forum and scaring the real belgiums to speak up.

I think many RL belgians here share my opinion of being against a union. (like innos his comment above illustrates (I assume))

honderdjaar wrote:yea and that is maybe why the threads are so much scaring people? idk but maybe that is why nobody so far spoke for pro-union.

again, if you feel scared by me I can only give you one advise: grow a *PEEP* pair of balls. This isn't RL.

honderdjaar wrote:a i am almost a doctor and i can tell u its really natural behaviour to try to fit in the group and go along with the majority however u are speaking here as if u are the majority, this is missleading and therefore u are threathing indeed.

see one of the comments above, I'm repeating myself. It's a fricking game. get over it.

honderdjaar wrote:b no they are not speaking up to be picked

which I A) fail to believe and B)think would be very very sad.

honderdjaar wrote:c as i said before union had lots of good things and this is a fact and u are one of the few who dont like it but therefore its not right to call the union crappy because that where good times.

let's the face it, the union was crappy. You got RW'd every time ATLANTIS (or EDEN) needed a distraction war (and then you had lucky that throughout a big part of the duration of the union there wasn't really a need for it) and in all the time of the union there barely where any Belgian presidents. And the ones that did got elected *looks at thomasred*... well... you know what I mean.

honderdjaar wrote:sure some people left and some people probably came(that is how it goes), however u seem to forget that the majority wanted this for a good reason.

see innos his comment.

honderdjaar wrote:and do u think that belgians care about people from usa????

I do and I'm a Belgian.

honderdjaar wrote:i never told u that we should merge now.

no you didn't, but the comments on that poll where pretty clear

honderdjaar wrote:i only told u to stop telling bad stuff about the union, because u are blastering the union.

OMG!! YOU ARE SAYING I CAN'T SAY WHAT I WANT!! I FEEL THREATENED BY YOU!! now I don't dare to post anymore.

honderdjaar wrote:dont forget that most people wanted the union and i havent seen any prove of the majority wanting something else after that.

see innos his comment

Apparently people like to bring up a referedum that happened ages ago.

If possible could someone please post more details about that referendum.
like the voting count of the eBelgians, who voted, etc.

like the voting count of the eBelgians, who voted, etc.

It was a poll, so impossible to see. And it dates from like 3 month (a month before Belgium became independant, when it was under eUK ruling if I remember well). And it was a vast majority in favor of a union

are you talking about the poll for the union of eUK and eUNL?

Nop another one. After the Jeuxvideo. com babyboom (a month or 2-3 afterwoods). Don't remember when it was exactly.

is that the referendum, eniotn and other s are referring to?

DemetriusA wrote:

honderdjaar wrote: and they will invade us in 2 days, so watch out with ur words or we will invade again'

I love the way you call us delusional for thinking that you'd attack us but yet, here you are not shy at all about using it as a threaten. Well I won't stand for it! If you are so sure of your military power, then why not do it already and spare us this bickering of yours? Of course, you haven't done so because it is just that, bickering.

omg have u read it because i was not talking about us invading,
all u guys who even think that that was the poll are a dumber then dumb.
ok i will refraise once more, the referendum we held yesterday was to discover if people of the eunl still wanted the government to put time and effort in the union and the poll was clear, however it can not be used because it was poorly designed and therefore the ambassador could also vote.
but in the part i quoted i was referring to what lots of eden guys said when anybody even so much spoke of the union in the beginning of this forum. and then they all said that we shouldnt even speak of union because then spain would invade us in 2 days (this was a direct thread also used by shadow, one of his many threads he used to gain control of what people where talking about).

at shadow saying nobody is going to be threatned, look at etiotna post plz, how long did it take before he got attacked?
it took a whopping 6 minutes before innos attacked him and said that his thought wasnt welcome in belgium.
and ur still saying ur not threatening all the guys who say pro-union stuff?

Eniotna wrote:

Innos28 wrote:so what did happen to ThomasRED?

Both Olv and Apotygma are doing a great job for eBelgium. I would not compare them to someone who hasn't done anything so far for the new eBelgium.

He was voted out of his functions during a questionable vote by a bunch of Americans. He thus didn't get the opportunity to do anything for eBelgium.

The thing that bothers me the most about the "old guard" (older eBelgian players) is that they tend to live in the past and letting personal relations come between national interests. Most of them have a pretty good understanding of the current situation in eBelgium, but don't seem to be able to predict the consequences of their actions under the given circumstances. ThomasRED may be a great and merituous guy, but just because of his background he wasn't a good choice to be a MoD, and it should have been clear from the beginning that his appointment would be contested. Why then appoint him and waste precious time in which more important stuff could be discussed and a neutral MoD could already be organizing the army? Because it was a bad call, motivated by emotions and not by sober calculations, and this whole attitude was marking a large first part of Olv's presidency.

Aldous,

Don't forget that it was not just MoD but also MoFa that he was appointed to by Olv007. That really escalated the matter in many people's minds

I think that's an economic reason. I don't see an different reason.
The game is made: wars, strategies and economy. It will not change. Otherwise what would be the interest of the game?

honderdjaar wrote:

omg have u read it because i was not talking about us invading,

like I said: you wheren't talking about invading, but your fellow citizens are.

honderdjaar wrote:all u guys who even think that that was the poll are a dumber then dumb.

honderdjaar wrote:ok i will refraise once more, the referendum we held yesterday was to discover if people of the eunl still wanted the government to put time and effort in the union and the poll was clear, however it can not be used because it was poorly designed and therefore the ambassador could also vote.

Personally, it's not so much the results of the poll that worries me, but rather the overall reactions of your fellow citizens that I find alarming.

honderdjaar wrote:but in the part i quoted i was referring to what lots of eden guys said when anybody even so much spoke of the union in the beginning of this forum. and then they all said that we shouldnt even speak of union because then spain would invade us in 2 days (this was a direct thread also used by shadow, one of his many threads he used to gain control of what people where talking about).

honderd, please. you flatter me. You portrait me like Darth-Vader mixed with Mao Zedong.

You are right, I am sooo the dictator of this forum. Innos, I request a name change to "shadow-Der Führer-ukcs".

And if I'm the only one speaking against the union, how come Aldous, innos and NicknameRonny (yes, they are all over US PTO'ers, part of my evil Clone trooper SS)

honderdjaar wrote:at shadow saying nobody is going to be threatned, look at etiotna post plz, how long did it take before he got attacked?
it took a whopping 6 minutes before innos attacked him and said that his thought wasnt welcome in belgium.

Again Mr. Bond, can't you see innos is also part of the US PTO squad? I guess this is a full blown conspiracy on the crown!!

honderdjaar wrote:and ur still saying ur not threatening all the guys who say pro-union stuff?

WARNING TO ALL: IF YOU ARE PRO UNION, MY CLONE TROOPER SS WILL EITHER THROW YOU IN THE LAVA OF OUR VOLCANO (that is where we have our secret base) OR YOU WILL BE EATEN ALIVE BY FLESH EATING BUNNIES.

SIGNED
HERR SHADOW
YOUR DICTATOR
HAIL SHADOW!!

I think Innos attacked etiotna because of his eracism not because of his views on union.

I have said this before elsewhere but I think it bears keeping in mind. There is no function available within current game mechanics (eep!) to actually form a union. As it is our three provinces will always be seen by the game as not part of the UNL. If eBelgians or RL Belgians want to unite with the eNL, have one government in Amsterdam, take eDutch citizenship, they are basically giving up, in the eyes of the game, any claims to these provinces. That is what union means in terms of the rules of the game. The game is not designed so that people can work out RL issues of nation and race, it is designed so that people can join together in new unions and make what they want of the world. If an RL Belgian thinks it would be more fun to play in the slightly larger nation of eNL that's his right and due. But having done so he has no grounds to complain or disparage when Filipinos or Americans or Englishmen or Servs or Poles try to make something out of the ecountry he turned his back on. [if those RL foreigners make a selfish hash of things, well, that's a different story] You either are eBelgian or you leave eBelgium it to those who are.

We could do the same argument about alliance, do you think that all EDEN and PHOENIX countries should merge?^^

And for the merge, it's better to live in a country where you are able to live than a country that you're able to survive. Moreover it's better to live in a country where you have your voice and can't be PTOed, than in a PTOed country (this refers to the 1rst merge).

But yeah for now, merge isn't a god idea anyway.

I think the chance's of union at this point are about the same as those for a Dutch invasion; Slim and his younger brother, None.

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote:There is no function available within current game mechanics (eep!) to actually form a union. As it is our three provinces will always be seen by the game as not part of the UNL. If eBelgians or RL Belgians want to unite with the eNL, have one government in Amsterdam, take eDutch citizenship, they are basically giving up, in the eyes of the game, any claims to these provinces.

I tend to disagree, as eBelgium's regions will always be part of eBelgium for game-mechanics: see for example when you join the game (you can select country "Belgium" and then "Flanders", "Brussels" or "Wallonia", also when it is currently not owned by eBelgium. You'll also have always the opportunity of RW'ing regions. So in the eyes of the game, a country never disappears. That said: I honestly wouldn't care whether there would be a UNION under a Dutch flag or a Belgian flag!

And about the "giving up" thing: last months in eUNL, Belgians had more to say in eUNL that dutchies ( biggest party: The Belgian Party / most elected president: ThomasRED, Belgian / languages used: officially English, but also Dutch and French / etc. )

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote:If an RL Belgian thinks it would be more fun to play in the slightly larger nation of eNL that's his right and due.

I agree that it is absolutely not beneficial to move from eBelgium to eNetherlands, or vice versa. You'll get from a small country into another small country. Only when eBelgium and eNetherlands were one country, the benefits were bigger as you had everything times two.

When not merged, it honestly doesn't matter that much whether you're in eBelgium or eNetherlands (in matters of "game" - it can of course matter where your friends are )

I don't see how your first paragraph disagrees with what I said.

If people want to be in a bigger country they can move to eNL. If that is a significant number it will give you all the benefits of union (higher pop). You do not get everything times two in union under one flag. What could you possibly get times two in union under one flag? You just end up with RW-able territories and a significant number of population (esp newbs) who are pissed because someone decided that Belgium not existing was what was best for Belgium.

Yeah, but moving out of our country will mean, loosing all our newcomers too and letting them live in a destroyed country. Which is not really better.

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote:What could you possibly get times two in union under one flag?

Well, firstly: increased population (approx. times two for equally "big" (=small) countries). That makes for a bigger community (more fun?), more customers for companies, more costs when a country declares war. Secondly; more tax income (approx. times two also? - can't prove though!), and thus more money. That could make for more MPPs/wars, more organized state companies, better army, etc. There are probably some other advantages to be thought of, but I won't bother you with all that.

Tacitus Arkenseale wrote:You just end up with RW-able territories and a significant number of population (esp newbs) who are pissed because someone decided that Belgium not existing was what was best for Belgium.

Yup, that are (some of) the disadvantages - totally agree with them.

The problem which we forget, it's the language. In Belgium, many also speak French. I come from Wallonia and I know many persons who are in Efrance, because they don't understand English.

In belgium, in this moment, you can see newspapers in english, french, nederlands. It's not a problem. We can't do that in UNL.

The Belgians which arrive on the game, in Wallonia, often speak French, we cannot forget them. It's possible to make that in Belgium.

Boklevski wrote:

Well, firstly: increased population (approx. times two for equally "big" (=small) countries). That makes for a bigger community (more fun?), more customers for companies, more costs when a country declares war. Secondly; more tax income (approx. times two also? - can't prove though!), and thus more money. That could make for more MPPs/wars, more organized state companies, better army, etc. There are probably some other advantages to be thought of, but I won't bother you with all that.

You can get all those benefits by moving. Merging is not necessary.

But I'm glad we agree about the disadvantages!

Elynea wrote:The problem which we forget, it's the language. In Belgium, many also speak French. I come from Wallonia and I know many persons who are in Efrance, because they don't understand English.

In belgium, in this moment, you can see newspapers in english, french, nederlands. It's not a problem. We can't do that in UNL.

The Belgians which arrive on the game, in Wallonia, often speak French, we cannot forget them. It's possible to make that in Belgium.

As someone who can only claim to be fluent in one language barely, would it be better for me to rely on people to use their own translating programs or would you recommend I try to use one?

Elynea wrote:The problem which we forget, it's the language. In Belgium, many also speak French. I come from Wallonia and I know many persons who are in Efrance, because they don't understand English.

In belgium, in this moment, you can see newspapers in english, french, nederlands. It's not a problem. We can't do that in UNL.

The Belgians which arrive on the game, in Wallonia, often speak French, we cannot forget them. It's possible to make that in Belgium.

There really isn't any difference with the language. Here, the forum is in English as well as are all important newspapers. I think we'll never get passed this language problem in Belgium unless we have a really motivated translating team. But people who are not good in English will either move away or leave the game.

@elynea
u have been misinformed about the union. (maybe by some bad cia intelligence)
but the union was trylangual.
our language in the union was english/dutch/french.

Actually, UNL was the same as Belgium is now, French, Dutch, but mainly English for obvious reasons.

For some information: http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/libertarian-party-recognises-belgian-independence1-1235198/1/20

Shenken wrote:For some information: http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/libertarian-party-recognises-belgian-independence1-1235198/1/20

That's cool. I mean, their tone is very nasty but it's a model for others nevertheless.

they don't mean much in eUNL, if you want an official statment you need to look for I&W

They recognize it. They removed all Belgian citizenship on the forum.

Apotygma wrote:they don't mean much in eUNL, if you want an official statment you need to look for I&W

Government makes the official statements, not I&W. And yes I&W is the biggest but that doesn't mean that their statement is the official one.