All TOgether

I'm going to note that the eUK doesn't care about any of their region but London, what makes you think they're gunna give a rats ass if their new Belgian territories get attacked?

shadowukcs wrote:
I've started a thread about this on the eUK forum: http://forums.erepublik.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=66841&p=976815#p976793

A invitation to get invaded, nice... :-)

Of course the UK wont be against, nothing change for them, only better bonuses...

Moreover, you're using some strange arguments, if UK can get a french region, i dont see why eBE/eNL couldn't. About alliances, eBE/eNL will easily get his place in one major alliance that i won't name here...

If we merge with any big countries, we will be assimilated. If we merge with NL, we can do it under BE flag. And even if it's under NL flag, the belgians will stay important...

To merge with the UK is an egocentric choice, shadowbecs, euh, shadowukcs... :-/
It will destroy our chances to strenghten our community and the hopes of our news citizens.

For olders players, a merge with UK is nice. For new players, its a disaster and a merge with NL is far better.
What is our future ? What is the most important ? 20% on your own business, or the opportunity for your younger citizens to become active belgians players ?

I know you don't really care about eBE and its future (you wanted to left to go in China for bonuses), personnal progression is important i get it, but now, merging with UK, it's a choice that will affect all the country, not only you... :-/

powerown64 wrote:I'm going to note that the eUK doesn't care about any of their region but London, what makes you think they're gunna give a rats ass if their new Belgian territories get attacked?

This used to be the case. Back when their fortress was London. The fact that they didn't care for other regions was purely strategical. Since admins took away the "fortress" ability this has changed. And the new econ module has only strengthened that. (since regions have now suddenly become very important for the war production.

and even if what you say is true (it not but lets assume it is), eUK has MPP's, strong friends and a decent army. What does eNL have? They don't have an army, they can't afford MPP and I think one look on the map during the past months shows that they're not really have much friends either.



Fact is: no matter how you look at it: we either need to merge or conquer some regions. Seeing as we can't conquer, merging is the only option.

If we don't, all our national companies will be pushed off the market by big countries and trade will completely stop.

ThomasRED wrote:Moreover, you're using some strange arguments, if UK can get a french region, i dont see why eBE/eNL couldn't.About alliances, eBE/eNL will easily get his place in one major alliance that i won't name here...

haha, ohyou.jpg



we can't even afford 2 mpp's. The dutch can't afford to keep their own regions safe and you're honestly suggesting we could rent a region from france?

Also joining a alliance... really? Other than Luna, there isn't 1 alliance that could use us.

ThomasRED wrote:If we merge with any big countries, we will be assimilated. If we merge with NL, we can do it under BE flag. And even if it's under NL flag, the belgians will stay important...

>implying you can merge under a belgian flag with the dutch.


my face when I read this


The dutch are constantly taken over. If you merge with them and poland takes them over you'd need
Step 1: pay for the RW
step 2: pay for the costs of winning the RW
step 3a: start a NE declaration
Step 3b: in case a NE declaration has already been proposed in the past seven days you'd have to pay big time for a DoW
step 4: launch the attack
and then you conquered. Which would take you 4 days to re-obtain the region and would cost our already empty treasury a lot of gold.

ThomasRED wrote:To merge with the UK is an egocentric choice, shadowbecs, euh, shadowukcs... :-/
It will destroy our chances to strenghten our community and the hopes of our news citizens.

Hohoho shadowBEcs. good one. If only you'd know that UKCS is a counter-strike community (has little to do with RL UK other than that the owner lives there) and that it was with this community that I came to erep, you'd realise how f*** dumb that comment is.

also any merge could do damage to our community. doesn't matter whether it's with the dutch or with the UK. But the simple fact is: we need more regions or you, me and everyone else he can close shop.

ThomasRED wrote:For olders players, a merge with UK is nice. For new players, its a disaster and a merge with NL is far better.
What is our future ? What is the most important ? 20% on your own business, or the opportunity for your younger citizens to become active belgians players ?

[citation needed]


lol. Care to elaborate your totally scientific and backed up comment.

ThomasRED wrote:I know you don't really take care about eBE and its future (you wanted to left to go in China for bonuses), personnal progression is important i get it, but now, merging with UK, it's a choice that will affect all the country, not only you... :-/

If I wouldn't care for eBE. WHY THE FCK AM I NOT IN CHINA THEN AND WHY AM I EVEN TYPING THIS?

gg for logic thinking. *clap*clap*

seriously, each time you open a coca cola bottle, do you let it pop against your head or something?

shadowukcs wrote:
If I wouldn't care for eBE. WHY THE FCK AM I NOT IN CHINA THEN AND WHY AM I EVEN TYPING THIS?

gg for logic thinking. *clap*clap*

Sorry, i have missunderstood what you said 2h ago then :
[14:16] <%shadowukcs> I'm thinking of moving to eUSA soon
[14:16] <&ThomasRED[BE]> yeah
[14:16] <&ThomasRED[BE]> wasnt it china before ?
[14:16] <%shadowukcs> china, USA or Brazil
[14:17] <%shadowukcs> China has the language barrier but they are the most assured of their resources

I don't blame you, it's a personnal choice, your own progression is also important. :-/

(it become hard to follow you : you're pro merge, you're anti merge and never have been for a merge, you're pro merge again, you lie, you don't lie, you want to go to china, you want to care for eBE, you want to go to USA, you want to go to China, USA, or Brazil,... lot's of changes, it doesn't make it easy for me, you know i'm a bit limited ^^)

----

About a possible merge : there is 2 options :
- 100% economic : Poland
- Want something bigger for Belgium : Netherlands
That's all...

ThomasRED wrote:

shadowukcs wrote:
If I wouldn't care for eBE. WHY THE FCK AM I NOT IN CHINA THEN AND WHY AM I EVEN TYPING THIS?

gg for logic thinking. *clap*clap*

Sorry, i have missunderstood what you said 2h ago then :
[14:16] <%shadowukcs> I'm thinking of moving to eUSA soon
[14:16] <&ThomasRED[BE]> yeah
[14:16] <&ThomasRED[BE]> wasnt it china before ?
[14:16] <%shadowukcs> china, USA or Brazil
[14:17] <%shadowukcs> China has the language barrier but they are the most assured of their resources

I don't blame you, it's a personnal choice, your own progression is also important. :-/

(it become hard to follow you : you're pro merge, you're anti merge and never have been for a merge, you're pro merge again, you lie, you don't lie, you want to go to china, you want to care for eBE, you want to go to USA, you want to go to China, USA, or Brazil,... lot's of changes, it doesn't make it easy for me, you know i'm a bit limited ^^)

----

About a possible merge : there is 2 options :
- 100% economic : Poland
- Want something bigger for Belgium : Netherlands
That's all...

Dude...Really?

Has it ever occurred to you that

A) it says "I'm thinking"
B) that just because you move to another eNation purely for economic reasons that you don't care for eBE anymore. Last I checked you used to have lots of companies in eBrazil as well. don't you care for eBE anymore either? (It would be kinda STUPID to go china for the great community ... as they speak fricking chinese(!!))


the only part in your post I agree with is the

ThomasRED wrote:...it doesn't make it easy for me, you know i'm a bit limited

part.

Also

Poland is not really an option as there's a language barrier and eNL will only make us weaker

Hmm...would there be an additional resource bonus if both Belgium and the Netherlands merged with the UK? I must admit that some of your arguments are enticing.

Chris Stanwick wrote:Hmm...would there be an additional resource bonus if both Belgium and the Netherlands merged with the UK? I must admit that some of your arguments are enticing.

no

eUK has all the regions eNL has + 2 extra

shadowukcs wrote:

Chris Stanwick wrote:Hmm...would there be an additional resource bonus if both Belgium and the Netherlands merged with the UK? I must admit that some of your arguments are enticing.

no

eUK has all the regions eNL has + 2 extra

Okay, thanks. NL will probably remain a part of Poland anyway.

Chris Stanwick wrote:

shadowukcs wrote:

Chris Stanwick wrote:Hmm...would there be an additional resource bonus if both Belgium and the Netherlands merged with the UK? I must admit that some of your arguments are enticing.

no

eUK has all the regions eNL has + 2 extra

Okay, thanks. NL will probably remain a part of Poland anyway.

tbf, it is pretty clear that with the new econ module there is deffo a Need to merge.

USA for example has a 100% productivity bonus. A Q5 FRM company is 700% more effective than a Q1 FRM. That means that when a US GM places goods on the eBE market, even with 99% import tax, he still can outsell our own GM's (even the ones with Q5 which aren't much in eBE) with extreme ease.

Olv007 wrote:

Gibberish45 wrote:I would leave Belgium if we merged with eNL again. I might even do it over a confederation......

Gibberish45, I'm just curious: why?

Actually nothing huge it's just that I came to Belgium almost immediately after the split and became a fierce advocate of Belgian independence. I think we are avoiding the effort necessary to grow the country by considering this merge. There is no reasonable way to handle any form of merge/confederation other than one country absorbing the other. And who do you think that will be?

I'm not completely one sided but the reason this is being considered is I assume to combat the problems we face as a nation due to low population. I think there are other ways to do this without compromising Belgium's sovereignty that should at least be tried before discussing another merger.

Posting to show my approval

Gibberish45 wrote:

Olv007 wrote:

Gibberish45 wrote:I would leave Belgium if we merged with eNL again. I might even do it over a confederation......

Gibberish45, I'm just curious: why?

Actually nothing huge it's just that I came to Belgium almost immediately after the split and became a fierce advocate of Belgian independence. I think we are avoiding the effort necessary to grow the country by considering this merge. There is no reasonable way to handle any form of merge/confederation other than one country absorbing the other. And who do you think that will be?

I'm not completely one sided but the reason this is being considered is I assume to combat the problems we face as a nation due to low population. I think there are other ways to do this without compromising Belgium's sovereignty that should at least be tried before discussing another merger.

before this upgrade, I agreed with you very strongly. But now the cards have been shifted completely. Purely population reasons should not be a reason for a merge.

With the change of the economy module however, it has become a necessity. 1 or 2 econ lvl 14 players who live in the USA and have a few Q5 raws can easily afford to sell at prices eBelgian salesmen can't compete with.

smack just showed me some tables he made with all the calculations. When he posts them in an article, I'll link it here

Is this because of the raw bonus?

Gibberish45 wrote:Is this because of the raw bonus?

p much yea. Doubling your countries production is certainly something that made me from anti-merger to pro-merger over night

shadowukcs wrote:

Gibberish45 wrote:Is this because of the raw bonus?

p much yea. Doubling your countries production is certainly something that made me from anti-merger to pro-merger over night

Doubling your countries production is certainly something that made me from anti-merger to pro-merger over night = Doubling my production is certainly something that made me from anti-merger to pro-merger over night

(there won't be eBelgium anymore)

ThomasRED wrote:

shadowukcs wrote:

Gibberish45 wrote:Is this because of the raw bonus?

p much yea. Doubling your countries production is certainly something that made me from anti-merger to pro-merger over night

Doubling your countries production is certainly something that made me from anti-merger to pro-merger over night = Doubling my production is certainly something that made me from anti-merger to pro-merger over night

(there won't be eBelgium anymore)

really TR.... why do you have to make everything so personal? Each time you're only making a fool out of yourself.


When I say "Doubling your countries production" I mean "DOUBLING YOUR COUNTRIES PRODUCTION" If you, as main supplier of the eBE military can't understand the value (double supplies) of that, than it seems that you are the one who's trying to harm eBE for personal grudges.

Secondly when I say "our national companies will be wiped off the market" I mean "our national companies will be wiped off the market"

For those interested in eUK's views on this (bare in mind I'm not a minister this month, or even in congress), but eUK has never held any ill feeling towards Belgium, even though there was that whole "attacking Belgium" by Mr Woldy last month. I can assure you all that there was no ill intent towards Belgium at that time, and though the decision was made quickly to try to positioning ourselves to help our allies in France, it eventually turned out to be poorly implemented.

Aside from that, Belgium and UK have had good relations in the past, stretching back to what was once a merger between us. I know not everyone was available to help when eBelgium was last in a bit of trouble with the Training War with France, but there were still several of us that came over to help, and I myself supplied cheap Q5s for Temujin to organise the defence. There were also other British tanks, though not as many as other countries since we don't really have that many.)

Economically, the bonus for us will be nice. The bonus for you guys if you were to take up citizenship would be enormous, and would definitely help your companies profit. Alongside that we have a relatively good amount of workers, we have enough congress to pass a decent amount of people to UK citizenship. We have a military and a highly competitive militia, and you would all be welcome in both. Alternatively, you could keep your own Army/Militia, whatever system you use here, and it could easily integrate into the Command structure under the MoD.

There will always be people that are against a merger for one reason or another, and it comes down to personal opinions in the end. My personal opinions is that I have no ill will towards Belgium, and it would be fun to work closer together with you guys. There is also people here that I like, such as Temujin, Shadow and I've sold cheap tanks to ThomasRed before too.

If there is no belgium there is no point for me to playing this game.

We should indeed consider a merge. If it is true that even with 99% import taxes other countries will easily overflow our market then we, as manager, will be forced to lower the wages with as result that many players will go to countries with more interesting wages.

Although I would prefer the eNL I think that the most interesting for all of us will be eUK.

Xgentis Lempereur wrote:If there is no belgium there is no point for me to playing this game.

Xgentis my old friend hope you am ok , i haven't spoke to you properly since i returned , and don't leave the game if eBelgium ends up being merged...... leave eBelgium with me and spread the word of Aldous

Mike Wooldridge wrote:

Xgentis Lempereur wrote:If there is no belgium there is no point for me to playing this game.

Xgentis my old friend hope you am ok , i haven't spoke to you properly since i returned , and don't leave the game if eBelgium ends up being merged...... leave eBelgium with me and spread the word of Aldous

eUK has 2 religions that are waging a holy crusade against each other (dioism and bobloism, but the latter are pig disgusting like temujin) A third party entering could be interesting.

shadowukcs wrote:

Mike Wooldridge wrote:

Xgentis Lempereur wrote:If there is no belgium there is no point for me to playing this game.

Xgentis my old friend hope you am ok , i haven't spoke to you properly since i returned , and don't leave the game if eBelgium ends up being merged...... leave eBelgium with me and spread the word of Aldous

eUK has 2 religions that are waging a holy crusade against each other (dioism and bobloism, but the latter are pig disgusting like temujin) A third party entering could be interesting.

Erm.... you've sparked my interest.....

Edit: But i really don't want to be a part of the eUK :'(

Bobloism believe in salvation trough mindless spam, spamraids and worshipping Bob Boblo. They find spam... "delicious"

http://wiki.erepublik.com/index.php/User:Jan_Baykara/Bobloism/Church_of_Boblo

they have their own sub forum on the eUK board named "Bob Boblo's House" I used to be their antichrist and changed their forum to "lindsey Lohan's house once" back when I was admin.... needless to say the wheren't amused.

Haha , i could have guessed that didn't go down well , they do sound like they need converting though........

Edit: Wait a second Shadow your a Dioist , am you trying to use Zamiatinism to weaken Bobloism so Dioism comes out stronger?......

shadowukcs wrote:

Mike Wooldridge wrote:

Xgentis Lempereur wrote:If there is no belgium there is no point for me to playing this game.

Xgentis my old friend hope you am ok , i haven't spoke to you properly since i returned , and don't leave the game if eBelgium ends up being merged...... leave eBelgium with me and spread the word of Aldous

eUK has 2 religions that are waging a holy crusade against each other (dioism and bobloism, but the latter are pig disgusting like temujin) A third party entering could be interesting.

I see what you did there.

I would also like to merge with eBelgium myself and the bonuses/activity would be good for both countries, if you want to speak to me on irc if you want to ask questions regarding the possible merger then feel free to ask :3

Mike Wooldridge wrote:Haha , i could have guessed that didn't go down well , they do sound like they need converting though........

Edit: Wait a second Shadow your a Dioist , am you trying to use Zamiatinism to weaken Bobloism so Dioism comes out stronger?......

I might. considering I'm the nemesis of Bobloism this could serve me well.

They have a religious holiday called "shadow is a butt day"

They have an entire section about how you waged war upon there faith , nemesis seems a bit modest to be fair lol

However i am starting to warm towards the idea of merging with the eUK (for eReligious reasons) shame i don't like the idea of being an eUK citizen.

Well I think that a merge with UK would indeed be an assimilation instead of a real merge. And I also still have problems due to the fact that UK is a terrible ally (but I've no personnal problems with UK, I know that the last invasion was a fun move, not a personal one).

But this would indeed allow to more activity which would be pretty good for eBelgians.

So even if I remain in favor of a merge with NL, I might consider that option also.

Mike Wooldridge wrote:They have a religious holiday called "shadow is a butt day"

They have an entire section about how you waged war upon there faith , nemesis seems a bit modest to be fair lol

However i am starting to warm towards the idea of merging with the eUK (for eReligious reasons) shame i don't like the idea of being an eUK citizen.

well tbf, you can keep your own identify to a certain level in eUK.

For example like I proposed earlier ( https://ebelgium.forumotion.net/t3235-all-together#62646 )


In therms of political equality, some very simple ground rules can be made

-no eBE congress candidates in original eUK regions
-no eUK congress candidates in original eBE regions.

In therms of army, the eUK army consists of milita's anyway. We could easily keep our current army, companies and everything. Armywise, nothing would change.

Jofroi wrote:Well I think that a merge with UK would indeed be an assimilation instead of a real merge. And I also still have problems due to the fact that UK is a terrible ally (but I've no personnal problems with UK, I know that the last invasion was a fun move, not a personal one).

But this would indeed allow to more activity which would be pretty good for eBelgians.

So even if I remain in favor of a merge with NL, I might consider that option also.

tbf, about the ally part: you have to hear them out first. I could explain it here but it's maybe better to hear the story from a eUK'er itself. Terra hasn't been all that great for eUK either and them leaving the alliance was a rather logical step imo.

shadowukcs wrote:[
-no eBE congress candidates in original eUK regions
-no eUK congress candidates in original eBE regions.

But there is no way of really enforcing this

no eBE congress candidates in original eUK regions
-no eUK congress candidates in original eBE regions.

How can you enforce that ?
Will there be a new Constitution ?
And a new flag ?
Does 100% of their citizenships will be given to Belgians ?
to All belgians ?

NL are our brothers, UK are on the other side of the sea...

If we need to merge for raw bonuses, i'd go for Poland.

To be fair, whether you believe that the whole Irish things is right or wrong, I think it is out of order to call UK a bad ally. We've always been there for those in Phoenix. Did we not sacrifice our regions to ensure that American, USA, and Swedish damage, as well as other EDEN countries, was diverted, allowing Serbia, Hungary, and others to beat the crap out of other EDEN opponents? We still send out Army to aid in RWs for Germany and France, and we have the Strasbourg treaty between all of us. We even thought for Brazil up until recently, yet they are the ones wanting to MPP Ireland, even though we've been close allies with Brazil for ages. I could go on, but I think it would be pointless.

As to congress, I myself would want to see guaranteed seats and representation for those merging from Belgium, so that they can be involved within the government and Commons, and that you're not simply taken advantage of. I'd be more than happy to see a 5th party comprised entirely of everyone from Belgium if it allowed you all a voice and a say in eUK politics.

And of course, you could still run your own army system, and work within the umbrella of the MoD, as I do with my militia.

Fhaemita Malodorous wrote:

shadowukcs wrote:[
-no eBE congress candidates in original eUK regions
-no eUK congress candidates in original eBE regions.

But there is no way of really enforcing this

mutual agreements with the other parties. Something that imo can be done easily in eUK. If you don't trust it or if you think there's someone not holding his part of the deal you can ask them to run blockers in the Belgians area's or ask the military for help.


Imo enforcing this should be relatively easy. It happened during the first merge as well and to my knowledge we never had 1 single problem with this.

ThomasRED wrote:
Will there be a new Constitution ?

eUK has a relatively simple but fair constitution. I'll link it tomorrow

ThomasRED wrote:And a new flag ?

meh, if you care for a flagg. It's kinda of a silly detail to fall over. You could have a regional flag (like Wales, scotland and England each have their own flagg)

ThomasRED wrote:Does 100% of their citizenships will be given to Belgians ?
to All belgians ?

naturally, that speaks for itself I think.

ThomasRED wrote:NL are our brothers, UK are on the other side of the sea...

NL? What NL? All I see is Poland

ThomasRED wrote:If we need to merge for raw bonuses, i'd go for Poland.

Poland has a language barrier. You'd be in a congress where you don't understand each other.

also, in 1 and the same post you call NL "your brothers" and a few words later you suggest merging with their aggressors. gg

I'll make a flag for the new Belgian/Dutch Empire, just wait a few hours and I'll have it up

A lot of Belgian players remained in the eUK after the last merge - does that suggest that we were assimilating and discriminatory?

We have two Belgian players as admins on our forums for years. Our elite fighting force was about 1/3 Belgians.

We have managed to not be PTO'd at all, which shows a good control over our congress, we could easily allocate you a percentage of the seats, as well as citizenships.

And best of all, we have king Woldy.

Jofroi wrote:Well I think that a merge with UK would indeed be an assimilation instead of a real merge. And I also still have problems due to the fact that UK is a terrible ally (but I've no personnal problems with UK, I know that the last invasion was a fun move, not a personal one).

Ever since WWIII (~2 years ago) we have remained committed to our friends in PEACE, through the entirety of Phoenix's long life and joined Terra only to remain allies with many ex-Phoenix (and ex-PEACE) countries. The reason we left Terra was due to the massive cooperation with EDEN, an alliance we have problems with historically and recently. So we figured it would be better for us to part company and let us aide our friends without being forced to help recent enemies, thus being in a better position to aide our allies.

In the last two years our record has remained spotless when it comes to defending our allies, all the more backed up by the fact that we've done this out of friendship rather than self gain or necessity as is the norm in some alliances.

No way that I suport any merge because some are scared to have less profit.

Xgentis Lempereur wrote:No way that I suport any merge because some are scared to have less profit.

If what the economics people are saying is correct and that eBE GMs can be out priced by foreign countries despite 99% import taxes then foreign companies could flood the market and put native companies out of business. This would have the knock on effect of there being little and cheap employment for eBE citizens throwing the populace into poverty. The only other solution would be to only run government companies and have them operate at a heavy loss paid for by the large amounts of money coming through in import taxes.

Stange to see british invading our forum all of suden.

It's what happens when people post an interesting thread on our forums

What can we expect from UK citizens on this thread ? Indeed they will agree, a merge with UK = 3 more regions for UK, and that's it. Nothing more for them... On the contrary, there is much more differences for eBelgians citizens...

ThomasRED wrote:What can we expect from UK citizens on this thread ? Indeed they will agree, a merge with UK = 3 more regions for UK, and that's it. Nothing more for them... On the contrary, there is much more differences for eBelgians citizens...

True, the merger offers very few benefits to the UK, but many benefits and advantages for Belgians.

Not sure what benefit you are talking about.

Well, people won't be able to destroy our market with a 100% gap.

If we had a 0%-0% bonus it might be possible (and barely). But we don't, even without a merge. Moreover, there is a very straightforward way to not allow any exportation: Keep the BEF value as low as possible so that nobody will be interested to export.

Xgentis Lempereur wrote:No way that I suport any merge because some are scared to have less profit.

Xgentis, that will happen if we do not merge.

Jofroi wrote:Well, people won't be able to destroy our market with a 100% gap.

If we had a 0%-0% bonus it might be possible (and barely). But we don't, even without a merge. Moreover, there is a very straightforward way to not allow any exportation: Keep the BEF value as low as possible so that nobody will be interested to export.

in food, we currently have a 40% bonus, in weapons a 20%

sorry, but that really isn't much.

Wow... them eBrits am really up for this aren't they.....

Chris Stanwick wrote:

ThomasRED wrote:What can we expect from UK citizens on this thread ? Indeed they will agree, a merge with UK = 3 more regions for UK, and that's it. Nothing more for them... On the contrary, there is much more differences for eBelgians citizens...

True, the merger offers very few benefits to the UK, but many benefits and advantages for Belgians.

for eUK there's a 20% food bonus, which considering their large economy will deffo make an impact. (it also means they don't have pump endless resources in trying to keep occupying eIrish fruit regions.)

It also increases their population (both citizenswise and forum population. As you can see they have a really active forum community) and their army (I'm not saying that BAF will give a spectacular increase of damage, but it will be noticeable).

The main advantage however (aside from the 20% increased econ bonus) is the fact that they'll become bigger, strong and gain more standing. Which will in turn make them a bigger player on the e-World stage. And seeing as we would part of their congress/country/gov, it would give us a chance to become a bigger player as well.

both sides gain quite a lot from this.