State run companies - a proposal

Apotygma wrote:Hey,

I am working on a scheme but backed by the Belgian government.

Hello,

I've been an active reader of this forum for the past 2 weeks now and given this government strive to make eBelgium a better, competitive eCountry, I thought to propose a sort of plan. I know that your agenda includes the "state companies" and I think it is a good idea to make such companies in raw materials. The reason is simple: raw materials are the base for every product in the eWorld and this is what your economy lacks right now. Maybe not lacks but the prices are sufficiently high to make buying raw materials from the eBelgium market quite unproductive.

The scheme would summarize as follows:
Open q2-q3 raw companies in high regions of the eWorld with local workforce and eBelgium license.

Of course first of all you should analyze what would be of greater help: grain, iron, diamonds, oil or wood. The actual work should be done by local players and this is an advantage for both parts. The company works with known players and the production cost can be lower than hiring from the local market. The players have a well-payed job for their main land skill and they get to "see the world" on country's expense.

Talking about expenses... A good scheme of salaries would be that based on productivity. You could also consider cutting down the cost by supplying salaries as: a nominal, small wage in country currency + the rest by donation in either BEF or gold. For example: Let's presume you decide to make a q3 grain firm. For a skill 5 employee a q4 bread should be ok if he has a q2 house so this means a daily salary of around 0.12 g in country currnecy so that he can buy the bread. The rest of the negociated salary could very well be donated directly to him.

Cons:
- you need an active administrator for the firms to take the time and evaluate performances, keep the firm on the track, donate the salaries => a good amount of work
- the problem of trust of the employees who don't take the actual sum automatically;
- you need to find the players who would actually agree to leave eBe even for a small period of time
- a consistent sum of money as investment

Pros:
- supply cheaper raw materials, thus having the means to regulate the local market
- while ran in a good way it could actually be profitable
- players with medium/high skill in land have a good job

Of course this is rather a briefing of my raw-materials state investment. If you find it interesting we can elaborate on the subject.

I think this is already being looked into, at least for iron for our weapons companies. I think staffing the company is more of a problem than finding a qualified administrator to run the company. and if the goal is to provide cheap raws to state companies we could just donate them (which is a hassle) if the goal is to increase competition then the raws could be sold on the belgian market

Why would you want to export raw materials? Organization can be anywhere in the world. I jump the world around with my organizations to get the cheapest materials. Export licenses for raw materials are a no go!

As Gibberish said, staffing is a fecking nightmare. Being in a country with no high raws means the only people who have land skill are old players who've spent time on other countrys, but most of them are in comgress.

Also, Q3 raw companies will cost around 90 gold each. We can't afford that.

Export licenses for raw materials are a no go!

Unless they're state run, in which case it is hugely important for tax reasons.

My comment might have seen quite radical.

But I am too for state companies, but for no other reason than to lower prices on the Belgian market.

@ Gibberish45
The goal would be to provide reasonably cheap raws on the market. Available for eBe manufacturers. This should lower price/raise salaries.

@Reaussou
I am not talking about a closed system here where raws are distributed among firms owned by the same person or the state.

@Medrolke
I believe that you can manage to get at least 7-8 people with decent skill in raw. I have a current situation of eBelgium citizens and I can see there are people with good land skill and quite active (well aboube 61)

Hey Dagniel

On paper, your plan is indeed very good looking and seems interesting. Having low priced RAWs for our citizens can be very interesting, even if I doubt that this will automatically lower prices. Investors will probably just have a higher margin, anyway.

As pointed out, this scheme would be very hard to work with. Why? You state that you can find 6-7 skill people with RAW. Following your reasonment with a company in each sector, we would need at least 40. In Belgium, at the moment, we have 14 skill 6+ land workers where 50% are congress members. that is problem 1.

Secondly, why would they move to another country and work for us when they can probably earn a lot more in private companies. As I suppose, we would sell at the lowest price in the world making 0 margin.

As you can probably see, there are a lot of flows in your plan. A much better solution would be : a minister of RAWs. This person would have access to orgs all around the world and would use them to buy raws for local investors in Belgium and would replenish their companies for a little fee (like 0.0001 gold per raw).

This would be a better solution, less costy, but would require a little more time. True.

I wasn't thinking of founding raw companies in each sector. For example it would be pointless to make a raw oil given the fact that that you have 4-5 moving tickets companies. But a well chosen sector would be of great help.

If you make payments by donation you avoid the country's IT (or a big part) which should result in the company's profit. So it's not about 0 margin or running it on loss.

My plan was build based on the idea of equilibrium between transparency , motivation for the workers involved and stabilizing the market.

Your idea about the orgs is interesting. If you manage to implement it you can consider me a future buyer..

Apotygma wrote:Hey Dagniel

On paper, your plan is indeed very good looking and seems interesting. Having low priced RAWs for our citizens can be very interesting, even if I doubt that this will automatically lower prices. Investors will probably just have a higher margin, anyway.

As pointed out, this scheme would be very hard to work with. Why? You state that you can find 6-7 skill people with RAW. Following your reasonment with a company in each sector, we would need at least 40. In Belgium, at the moment, we have 14 skill 6+ land workers where 50% are congress members. that is problem 1.

Secondly, why would they move to another country and work for us when they can probably earn a lot more in private companies. As I suppose, we would sell at the lowest price in the world making 0 margin.

As you can probably see, there are a lot of flows in your plan. A much better solution would be : a minister of RAWs. This person would have access to orgs all around the world and would use them to buy raws for local investors in Belgium and would replenish their companies for a little fee (like 0.0001 gold per raw).

This would be a better solution, less costy, but would require a little more time. True.

+1

Besides all this any company owner worth his salt already buys raws at the cheapest global price by moving his org, if he can't do this then his company probably isn't gonna last long.

Well it would be nice for a government run Ministry of RAW, you pay them a 5% service fee on your original purchase like send them 105 BEF for a 2g purchase of Iron in X country where it is the cheapest. The ministry pockets the 5 BEF and adds a line of profit for our country. However the purchaser might have to send a moving ticket as-well unless we have multiple organizations.

Velitia wrote:Well it would be nice for a government run Ministry of RAW, you pay them a 5% service fee on your original purchase like send them 105 BEF for a 2g purchase of Iron in X country where it is the cheapest. The ministry pockets the 5 BEF and adds a line of profit for our country. However the purchaser might have to send a moving ticket as-well unless we have multiple organizations.

-1

Velitia wrote:Well it would be nice for a government run Ministry of RAW, you pay them a 5% service fee on your original purchase like send them 105 BEF for a 2g purchase of Iron in X country where it is the cheapest. The ministry pockets the 5 BEF and adds a line of profit for our country. However the purchaser might have to send a moving ticket as-well unless we have multiple organizations.

We have mutliple organisations already as government (5 or 6). Some can of course not be given access to, but otherwise some owners have empty orgs that can be used too if they accept it.

We can easily have 5 or 6 orgs at our disposal. Of course, moving for 0.0001 gold less per raw is pointless, but setting an org in one of the cheapest countries will ensure us cheap raws globally. Otherwise : we finance the creation of 2-3 orgs. Already less costy then a company ^^

Overall it does add a lot of complexity to our system but how many companies would do it.

from eReptools.net
0.313 GRD 0.0094g per Q1, current cheapest Iron

In eBelgium
0.514 BEF 0.01028g per Q1

The difference is a little bit at a savings of 0.88g per 1000 consumed but with large orders it could save Belgian Business owners a medium sized amount of gold over a span of months.

1 gold savings per week (that is more or less what you consume in a Q1 per week) is not that bad you know... And that for one company. This means quite a lot at the end...

We would need a lot of volunteers to manage the distribution.

Apotygma wrote:

We have mutliple organisations already as government (5 or 6). Some can of course not be given access to, but otherwise some owners have empty orgs that can be used too if they accept it.

We can easily have 5 or 6 orgs at our disposal. Of course, moving for 0.0001 gold less per raw is pointless, but setting an org in one of the cheapest countries will ensure us cheap raws globally. Otherwise : we finance the creation of 2-3 orgs. Already less costy then a company ^^

I have a useless org that can be used (see Belgian lotto thread)

Well I would gladly sign up 3 of my companies in eBelgium for this new service...

Velitia wrote:Well I would gladly sign up 3 of my companies in eBelgium for this new service...

Indeed, but we need to find someone to do it. That's always the problem ^^

Volunteers I guess, we have a sign-up sheet and a bunch of donated orgs that we spread throughout the world.

Velitia wrote:Volunteers I guess, we have a sign-up sheet and a bunch of donated orgs that we spread throughout the world.

That's the idea.

Now, do we leave it to a volunteer lead government operation or a Private Service who profits with like a 1-5% savings fee on it? Give me a few days and I can bring up an estimation of how much raw materials we consume daily...

Central control of our economy relies too heavily on the knowledge, experience and economic savy of one or a few people. If that person is good, our economy is good, if they are not so good, our economy fails.

Let the free market run it's course, the cream will rise to the top and the chaff will blow away.

Thore Thoreson wrote:Central control of our economy relies too heavily on the knowledge, experience and economic savy of one or a few people. If that person is good, our economy is good, if they are not so good, our economy fails.

Let the free market run it's course, the cream will rise to the top and the chaff will blow away.

+1

Thore Thoreson wrote:Central control of our economy relies too heavily on the knowledge, experience and economic savy of one or a few people. If that person is good, our economy is good, if they are not so good, our economy fails.

Let the free market run it's course, the cream will rise to the top and the chaff will blow away.

Question for apo: has the market changed allot since 2 months ago? Has the number of Belgian companies increased drastically?


Coz I remember that we implanted those state companies temporarily to set up a Belgian economy and to prevent foreign companies from destroying our market.

if that isn't the case anymore, I see no problem with free market.

shadowukcs wrote:

Thore Thoreson wrote:Central control of our economy relies too heavily on the knowledge, experience and economic savy of one or a few people. If that person is good, our economy is good, if they are not so good, our economy fails.

Let the free market run it's course, the cream will rise to the top and the chaff will blow away.

Question for apo: has the market changed allot since 2 months ago? Has the number of Belgian companies increased drastically?


Coz I remember that we implanted those state companies temporarily to set up a Belgian economy and to prevent foreign companies from destroying our market.

if that isn't the case anymore, I see no problem with free market.

GODVERDOMME ! Sorry I made a very nice post and then it got deleted.... Don't have the time to rewrite it but basically : yes the amount of companies raised.

This is data from the 15th of April :
Number of companies : 132 gold
Companies cost : 4,690 gold
Licenses cost : 6,120 gold this makes that there are 306 export licences at least (as a lot brought some towards spain when they conquered here, and also towards eUK for the oldest among us). Between () you can find the number of actual companies working in our country employing someone.

Spoiler:

Here is the data today : http://ereptools.net/companies/summary

Only for houses we have 3 Q3 companies more for 1 Q1 less. We are raising quitely the quality levels of our companies or creating new once... But it is a slow process and people don't like waiting.

The investment fund could set up Housing Companies...

Velitia wrote:The investment fund could set up Housing Companies...

Lol, no : there are just not enough construction workers in Belgium. The working companies have already a lot of trouble keeping theirs alive..

Well maybe we could start selling people houses through the black market? As houses can be bought in foreign lands for 2.7-2.9g and we can sell them for like 3.2g with a small profit.

Apotygma wrote:

Velitia wrote:The investment fund could set up Housing Companies...

Lol, no : there are just not enough construction workers in Belgium. The working companies have already a lot of trouble keeping theirs alive..

Indeed ... as of yesterday, my company, GT House, has no more raw materials, so I was forced to quit and join another company, the only one on the job market for skill 4 ...

Having no raw materials is bad management. I might start up a Q1 Housing Co.

Velitia wrote:Having no raw materials is bad management. I might start up a Q1 Housing Co.

I can tell you : you will not find employees ^^

Okay then I will definitely not open it...