A chat session about the admin

see below for the chat with usernames

Reply by TR:

[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> aVegan
[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> admins team read private forum
[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> i think this one is for me
[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> all parties have external forums
[01:53] aVegan> NLSP can I post it?
[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> excpet bfb
[01:53] aVegan> TR leave me alone
[01:54] aVegan> I am and was not talking to you
[01:54] == hubertuses [tuses@Rizon-ED6E96FA.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit []
[01:54] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> its a public channel mate ;-)
[01:54] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> you can query NLSP for private chat
[01:54] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> ./query NLSP
[01:54] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> nice tip isnt it ^^
[01:54] MonsieurGuillontine> aVegan i dont think you need to ask permission to post something

The complete chat with usernames (don't know why they don't show up above,removed < and it seems to work)

[01:14] aVegan Why have you changed? Long ago you thought the same as me. No need for dictorship. No need for one sided decisions. eDemocracy is what we once fighted for. Together.
[01:15] aVegan Why has this changed?
[01:15] NLSP> well there are not one sided decisions
[01:15] aVegan> you know there are
[01:15] NLSP> however it is easier to represent everything as it is like that
[01:15] aVegan> and that eBe is full of them
[01:16] NLSP> well I mean of the admin-team opposing something to the nation
[01:16] aVegan> If the admin-team has political ambitions than yes they are wrong
[01:17] NLSP> I do not say that
[01:17] aVegan> As the can read ALL private political forums
[01:17] NLSP> I say that the admin-team is not imposing one sided decisions
[01:17] NLSP> that is something else then saying they impoe one sided decisions
[01:17] aVegan> but they can read ALL private boards
[01:17] aVegan> Also the private party boards to say something
[01:17] == Stilpo [cgiirc@Rizon-FADB7091.sbs.sunysb.edu] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[01:18] NLSP> that is something else then saying they impose one sided decisions
[01:18] aVegan> but more importantly also the private congress and gov boards
[01:18] NLSP> imposing decisions are not the same as being able to read everything
[01:18] aVegan> I don't say the admin impose one sided decisions
[01:18] aVegan> I say the CP does that
[01:19] NLSP> well I am saying the admin-team doesn't do that, and that is what I am talking about of
[01:19] NLSP> and you say only , but blablalba
[01:19] NLSP> but blablabla
[01:19] NLSP>
[01:19] NLSP> people get confused then
[01:19] aVegan> But by example you are political involved still you can read all private posts of revilating political parties
[01:19] aVegan> That is NOT correct
[01:20] NLSP> however, I chose to not do it
[01:20] aVegan> I also don't say that I say that admin can read ALL private boards
[01:20] == Daeres [~Daeres@Rizon-C33A43E4.bb.sky.com] has joined #eBrussels
[01:20] aVegan> And ofcourse you chose to
[01:20] == Phanes [~Phanes@GROM.rocks] has joined #eBrussels
[01:20] aVegan> You just do
[01:20] aVegan> that doesn't make you bad
[01:20] aVegan> that is just how human nature works
[01:21] NLSP> and I can see your reasoning
[01:21] NLSP> however not everyone agrees with it, that an admin has to be not functioning in politics and so
[01:22] == [57]spaniard [cgiirc@A8F02287.2B7B1B5D.3257423E.IP] has left #eBrussels []
[01:25] aVegan> It isn't about what everyone agrees with it is about what is logical and what is common sense
[01:25] aVegan> Normally politicians can not read what other parties say in private
[01:26] aVegan> that is just common sense and normal
[01:26] aVegan> Else we are talking about a dictorial regeme
[01:28] NLSP> or spionage ^^
[01:28] NLSP> watergate
[01:29] aVegan> much worse than watergate
[01:29] aVegan> everyone knows the admin can read everything but it seems nobody cares
[01:30] aVegan> Now I find that strange
[01:30] aVegan> I always found it strange
[01:30] NLSP> enfin, but to talk serious: Am i able to read these forums? yes Do I read these forums? no Do I know what kind of comments are made in some of these forums? I knew that already before I became admin. I have friends that I talk to ...
[01:30] aVegan> nono
[01:30] NLSP> aVegan : people care, that is why there are multiple independent party forums
[01:30] aVegan> And the gov boards?
[01:30] aVegan> And the private congress board?
[01:31] aVegan> You can say what you want but clearly you read these boards else you are a fool and I know you aren't a fool!
[01:31] * Phanes gn everyone o/
[01:31] NLSP> I have access now to gov and private congress due other masks
[01:31] NLSP> so I read them
[01:32] NLSP> I haven't read gov when I wasn't a member of the gov
[01:32] NLSP> (and aVegan I do not need to read them, cause if something special happens, I know it ...)
[01:32] NLSP> (that is why god invented gossip )
[01:32] aVegan> come on don't s*** ofcourse you would read it
[01:33] aVegan> God sees everything and admin is god
[01:33] aVegan> punto!
[01:33] NLSP> but like I posted before
[01:33] aVegan> Strangly enough it seems NOBODY seems to realize this
[01:33] aVegan> Nobody seems to realize that admin has access to ALL private boards
[01:34] NLSP> I know that in some forum-users their eyes, the admin team are all knowing and powerful creatures called GOD.
[01:34] NLSP> However, we are humans with flesh and blood and we make sometime errors or overlook stuff. If this is the case, you can easily notify us, we are reachable by:
[01:34] NLSP> * Forum PM
[01:34] NLSP> * In-Game PM
[01:34] NLSP> * IRC query
[01:34] NLSP> I knew it before I was a mod
[01:34] aVegan> Nobody seems to realize that admins with political ambition can abuse these rights
[01:34] NLSP> yes they can
[01:34] NLSP> just like I can change everyone's vote in a voting topic ...
[01:35] aVegan> Nobody seems to realize that always you have people who abuse power
[01:35] aVegan> not really
[01:35] aVegan> people would notice
[01:35] NLSP> not always, but a lot
[01:35] NLSP> aVegan : really ?
[01:35] == Phanes [~Phanes@GROM.rocks] has quit [Quit: I bring to light!]
[01:35] aVegan> but if you read private boards nobody will notice
[01:35] NLSP> people where swearing that my vote topic didnn't contain an time limit ...
[01:36] NLSP> people believe what they want to believe
[01:36] aVegan> What do you mean?
[01:36] aVegan> Do you mean you did illegal stuff? Can't believe that so I guess you mean something else
[01:37] NLSP> I say that people sweared that my vote topic didn't contain from the start a time limit
[01:37] NLSP> however it did
[01:37] NLSP> people do not read well
[01:37] NLSP> they believe what they want to believe
[01:38] NLSP> my point is that a lot of people wouldn't notice changes in voting topics...
[01:38] NLSP> what doesn't mean that I did it, or would approve of it!!!
[01:38] aVegan> Another reason why admin with political involvement should be removed
[01:39] aVegan> You are giving reasons here why the current situation is f*** up
[01:39] aVegan> You shouldn't do that on a public chat
[01:39] NLSP>
[01:39] NLSP> I am telling you that there is a difference between what a person can do and what a person does
[01:40] NLSP> (oh btw, an admin doing so, can easily be cought)
[01:41] aVegan> I know (by the other admin not by anyone else) but if he reads private boards NOBODY can prove that
[01:42] eRepublik> :: NEWS :: A resistance has started in Venezuelan Capital ::
[01:43] aVegan> In my time innos was constantly posting in the PRIVATE congress forum
[01:43] aVegan> So he didn't read that PRIVATE forum but did post in it?
[01:44] aVegan> btw I didn't mind as he isn't politically involved
[01:44] aVegan> If that admin doesn't post and does it smart it can take months to never to be caucht
[01:44] aVegan> cought
[01:45] == Monsie|Napping has changed nick to MonsieurGuillontine
[01:47] aVegan> btw when I was in gov he also posted a few times in the gov board.
[01:47] aVegan> Come one NLSP ofcourse all of you read the private boards. Don't s*** about it.
[01:48] aVegan> It's as if you would put candy next to a kid and say you can't eat it. Everyone knows what is going to happen...
[01:48] NLSP> well, you do not have to believe me aVegan
[01:48] aVegan> It isn't really important if you do so or not.
[01:49] aVegan> Important is if you can do it or not
[01:49] aVegan> Important is if you can abuse your power (without anyone ever knowing it)
[01:50] aVegan> That is why in RL these things will ALWAYS be split up so nobody can be tempted
[01:50] aVegan> The same should be in this game
[01:50] aVegan> As the temptation is even bigger and the punishement or concequences are as good as none existing
[01:51] == Daeres [~Daeres@Rizon-C33A43E4.bb.sky.com] has quit []
[01:52] aVegan> Could I post this conversation on the forum?
[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> aVegan
[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> admins team read private forum
[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> i think this one is for me
[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> all parties have external forums
[01:53] aVegan> NLSP can I post it?
[01:53] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> excpet bfb
[01:53] aVegan> TR leave me alone
[01:54] aVegan> I am and was not talking to you
[01:54] == hubertuses [tuses@Rizon-ED6E96FA.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit []
[01:54] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> its a public channel mate ;-)
[01:54] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> you can query NLSP for private chat
[01:54] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> ./query NLSP
[01:54] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> nice tip isnt it ^^
[01:54] MonsieurGuillontine> aVegan i dont think you need to ask permission to post something
[01:54] ThomasRED[BE]AFK> hey jhonnytk
[01:54] MonsieurGuillontine> you ahve the freedome of speech
[01:54] jhonnytk> hello ThomasRED[BE]AFK
[01:54] * MonsieurGuillontine goes back to afk
[01:55] Betafoxtrot> I don't get permission to post stuff
[01:55] Betafoxtrot>
[01:55] jhonnytk> someone is still awake
[01:56] aVegan> I do prefer to ask permission
[01:56] aVegan> Although i KNOW THIS IS NOT A PRIVATE CHAT
[01:56] aVegan> i prefer to ask it
[01:57] Ward> thanks aVegan, that shows some manners
[01:57] aVegan> Also it give NLSP a change to save the chat so I don't edit it (like someone has done in the past of a private chat)
[01:57] Ward> good night, all
[01:57] Ward> o/
[01:57] == Ward has changed nick to Ward|sleep
[01:57] aVegan> So NLSP can I post our conversation?
[01:58] NLSP> #eBrussels is a public channel
[01:58] aVegan> So I can?
[01:58] NLSP> so you do not need my consent to publish anything said in this channel
[01:58] NLSP> I assume everything said here, to be said in public
[01:58] aVegan> Sadly it seems some people also think they don't need a consent to post (and edit) private chats
[01:59] aVegan> Great!

Just saying I'm staying out of private forums... None of my business what happens there anyway....

I only see topic titles from private forums ( but that's something I cannnot help... )

Oh boy am I happy that I don't go on IRC anymore to see all that crap...

This was already known for longer. TR has already posted in boards he shouldn't have posted in before.

I liked the look of this thread, so decided to log in to post on it.

First off, about the names not showing up, it's because the forum thinks that the names are HTML tags, so it doesn't show them. Just turn off HTML in your post and it will work.

Now about the admins and private boards s**t.

As an admin who regularly posted in private congress and government boards, I must admit that I saw this coming months ago. Most of the admin team who have done this came from the time when people actually liked and trusted others in this community. Admins were generally seen as reasonably knowledgeable in eRep (most had been around for a while) so people were happy for their input.

Most of my contributions to Belgium over the years were done in this manner and I don't think anyone would've rather I hadn't. This is not harming anyone and if an admin genuinely abuses his power for his own political gain, they'd be removed anyway, so why exactly are you complaining?

Medrolke 2 wrote:
and if an admin genuinely abuses his power for his own political gain, they'd be removed anyway, so why exactly are you complaining?

coz they do and they aren't

well... prove it and they will be

[sarcasm] In the end we are only guest and serfs in ThomasRed's forum and universe. We are lucky to even have a place to talk [/sarcasm]

What is shocking is ThomasRed's caviler attitude to the situation. He is saying we do what we want and we do not care what you think about it. He is really open about his abuse of power. He is open about violating privacy and showing that he does not respect democratic values.

His reason for such abuses does not make sense at all. So what if most parties have external forums, that does not make it right for you to read or have access to private political forums. YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT! Why do you think people have external forums? Since you and your admin team is incompetent, abusing their powers left and right, therefore BCP have an external forum.

Only eBE, only eBE. This is the first that I hear of such nonsense that the admin illegally read private party forums. What is most ironic is that he is so open about it. The problem with ThomasRed is that he power corrupted him. Power twisted his moral judgement and now we have an immoral and unjust admins that does what he wants and does not care about others, but only himself.

The once great politician, fallen.

Hold on a minute, Konrad. Not everything that happens in eBelgium is about TR and it was not all perfect before he became an admin. Manong, when he was an admin, read and commented in private forums even though he was requested not to on many occasions. Innos has also been known to comment in private areas, so presumably he also reads them at least sometimes. If you are going to have admins who are part of the community, they are going to have access to private areas.

Also, do not blame the external party fora on TR, because that makes no sense at all. RB had an external forum before I came to eBelgium, which is more than 18 months. The old BCP also had its own forum before TR was admin. I am not sure about the other parties, but I am guessing that they also have had external fora and perhaps still do. BfB, TR's own party, is the only one I know of that has consistently used its area on this forum since the forum was started.

MaryamQ wrote:Innos has also been known to comment in private areas, so presumably he also reads them at least sometimes. If you are going to have admins who are part of the community, they are going to have access to private areas.

But that is exactly my point. Ofcourse an admin can and will read the private boards. I have no problems with that as long as they aren't involved politically themselves.
And that is the HUGE difference between Innos and TR. Even if TR is not in congress or the gov he is still politically active. Nobody can argue against that. But then he still has access to those private boards. Even when he runs opposition openly he has access to the private boards. That just shouldn't be allowed and I don't understand that anyone can defend this.

TR is in the government...

oh and I agree. There is a reason "private boards" have the word 'private' in them

aVegan wrote:

MaryamQ wrote:Innos has also been known to comment in private areas, so presumably he also reads them at least sometimes. If you are going to have admins who are part of the community, they are going to have access to private areas.

But that is exactly my point. Ofcourse an admin can and will read the private boards. I have no problems with that as long as they aren't involved politically themselves.
And that is the HUGE difference between Innos and TR. Even if TR is not in congress or the gov he is still politically active. Nobody can argue against that. But then he still has access to those private boards. Even when he runs opposition openly he has access to the private boards. That just shouldn't be allowed and I don't understand that anyone can defend this.

I do see your point about that, A Vegan. I just don't like broad accusations that aren't even accurate, which I think describes what Konrad said.

I do agree that it doesn't matter if you say that you don't read certain part of the forum. As long as you are technically able to read them, it should be assumed that you do read them.

That being said. Forum admins are chosen as trustworthy people. Personaly I don't like role-play titles to affect your membership to the forum administration.

TR will know on his own when him being admin conflict with an in-game title. Which he has already done in the past. Leaving admin because he was CP.

Btw why this sudden focus on TR?

Seriously, I feel neglected ...

I could also focus on NLSP but as he has never send out lies about me. Edited (fortifying) private conversations and send them around with demanding not to share them with me I have no reason in distrusting him...

And as you aren't involved in politics and have been pretty fair to me in the past I don't see why you shouldn't be admin.

aVegan wrote:I could also focus on NLSP but as he has never send out lies about me. Edited (fortifying) private conversations and send them around with demanding not to share them with me I have no reason in distrusting him...

And as you aren't involved in politics and have been pretty fair to me in the past I don't see why you shouldn't be admin.

So you just admitted you are running a personal vendetta against TR...

Olv007 wrote:

aVegan wrote:I could also focus on NLSP but as he has never send out lies about me. Edited (fortifying) private conversations and send them around with demanding not to share them with me I have no reason in distrusting him...

And as you aren't involved in politics and have been pretty fair to me in the past I don't see why you shouldn't be admin.

So you just admitted you are running a personal vendetta against TR...

No I am explaining why TR is dishonest and should not have so much power in eBe.
These are experiences I had that showed his dishonest and power hunger. With none of the other mods I had these experiences. As far as I know all of them have always been honest and correct.

If you see this as a personal vendetta that is fine with me. But clearly it is not.

shadowukcs wrote:TR is in the government...

Because I begged him.

Ward De Bever wrote:

shadowukcs wrote:TR is in the government...

Because I begged him.

You should get electrocuted for that.

xironn wrote:

Ward De Bever wrote:

shadowukcs wrote:TR is in the government...

Because I begged him.

You should get electrocuted for that.

indd

why the f*** would you beg a guy who just betrayed his "beloved army" because he had to give in some power, to join your cabinet?

I asked ThomasRed as a Defence Advisor. I sure had some work convincing him because he foresaw the reactions. I'm definitely loyal to TR. I informed Belgium of this cabinet choice before the elections.

Btw, a quote from A Vegan which is more to the point:

aVegan on #eBrussels, Nov 13, wrote:[01:33:02] <aVegan> God sees everything and admin is god
[01:33:04] <aVegan> punto!

Ward De Bever wrote:I'm definitely loyal to TR. I informed Belgium of this cabinet choice before the elections.

You should be loyal to your country (that is eBelgium btw) and not to someone who just left our army in the cold (you could call this treason) and isn't even a citizen of eBelgium.
This is just CRAZY!!!

aVegan wrote:

Ward De Bever wrote:I'm definitely loyal to TR. I informed Belgium of this cabinet choice before the elections.

You should be loyal to your country (that is eBelgium btw) and not to someone who just left our army in the cold (you could call this treason) and isn't even a citizen of eBelgium.
This is just CRAZY!!!

this^

choosing you as a mod was a clear mistake, again somebody with a lack of sarcasm...

xironn wrote:choosing you as a mod was a clear mistake, again somebody with a lack of sarcasm...

Sarcasm in itself is not a virtue.

Ward De Bever wrote:

xironn wrote:choosing you as a mod was a clear mistake, again somebody with a lack of sarcasm...

Sarcasm in itself is not a virtue.

As is loyalty isn't.

Your loyalty should lie with your country (being the country president and so) and not with one person...

aVegan wrote:

Ward De Bever wrote:I'm definitely loyal to TR. I informed Belgium of this cabinet choice before the elections.

You should be loyal to your country (that is eBelgium btw) and not to someone who just left our army in the cold (you could call this treason) and isn't even a citizen of eBelgium.
This is just CRAZY!!!