David Cnudde - what shall we do if he get elected???

Nohjis wrote:

15:40 eRepublik :: NEWS :: The President of Belgium, David Cnudde, was impeached

March 5th: The Day eBelgium PTOed itself

M.Leviathin wrote:March 5th: The Day eBelgium PTOed itself

or do I mean Oh Sh*t!!!

M.Leviathin wrote:March 5th: The Day eBelgium PTOed itself

everyone else has done it so it makes a nice change

MaryamQ wrote:

Manong Rizal wrote:I think you guys should've given him a chance considering that he was elected by the majority. Therefore Congress went out of bounds by repealing the decision of the majority of the citizens. I don't see how his participation on the forum, or the lack thereof, was a basis for an impeachment. He could've proven that it worked if given the chance... we'll never know now, will we?

Actually, he was not elected by a majority. It was a plurality, and a narrow one at that. To break it down, out of 156 total votes, he got 52 or 33.33%, Goopy got 49 or 31.41%, Bruno Cnudde got 25 or 16.03%, jamster got 22 or 14.10%, and Volsem got 8 or 5.13%. I could go on for quite a while about what those numbers might mean, but it is clear to me that with no campaign effort by any of the candidates, no endorsement by our largest party, RB, and probably many 2-clickers believing he was the best candidate either because he was in their party (BfB) or because he was on the top of the list, there is no real mandate from our voters. I'm sorry, but I do not feel guilty for voting to impeach someone I consider a danger to our national interests.

Plurality or not, he was elected nevertheless. Your inferences may seem sound, but they are not necessarily true. He also got more than the member count for BfB. Real mandate? Who are we to judge the workings of democracy and be so expert to distinguish whether such is a mandate and such is not? Therefore, I resent the cynicism labeling someone as a danger to the national interest right away just because he/she does not engage in forum affairs. Congress could've waited for at least 2 days to let Mr. Cnudde present his plans and platform before impeaching him.

You may all think it is a minute subject or can be dismissed as a funny blurb in history; but we violated the mandate (or the quasi-mandate) of those 52 people that participated in this democracy which was irrevocably enough to elect someone into office. Goopy may be engaged in the forum, but as you've said, there were no real efforts to campaign and present appropriate platforms not just from David Cnudde but also from all of the candidates including Goopy. I really cannot see how a haphazard decision was the wisest one. Now, we have effectively created a precedent in which it is impossible for someone who does not believe in the forum and wishes to prove a legitimate claim about the forum to be never elected, or if elected, be impeached right immediately with no proper and thoroughly-thought-of basis. We all start in this game with mutual respect and equal chances, do we not? Thus who are we to deny the respect and the chance to anyone? What if it were us?

And thus I find this not amusing or a nonsensical fleeting blurb... I find it rather sad.

He had many days before the election to present plans and platform. He made no move to do so by any means, forum, media, IRC, PM, or even shouts. We are about to be attacked by eNL, and he made no attempt to announce a government or to contact members of Congress. How was he going to get us out of this situation? Was he even aware of it? Should we have waited to be wiped before making any move to negotiate with eNL or to protect ourselves with MPPs, contacts with friends, and supplies to our soliders and citizens? While they certainly could have done better, Goopy, jamster and Bruno Cnudde all made contact with members of the community before the election, and even the least experienced of them would be in a better position to deal with this impending war. Should we have let him have control of the country finances without having any idea where money was needed and budgeted? You bet I have made a judgment, and I think nobody else here would normally call me a judgmental person or a cynic. We as a Congress were elected to make judgments for the good of our Nation, and we have done so.

MaryamQ wrote:He had many days before the election to present plans and platform. He made no move to do so by any means, forum, media, IRC, PM, or even shouts. We are about to be attacked by eNL, and he made no attempt to announce a government or to contact members of Congress. How was he going to get us out of this situation? Was he even aware of it? Should we have waited to be wiped before making any move to negotiate with eNL or to protect ourselves with MPPs, contacts with friends, and supplies to our soliders and citizens? While they certainly could have done better, Goopy, jamster and Bruno Cnudde all made contact with members of the community before the election, and even the least experienced of them would be in a better position to deal with this impending war. Should we have let him have control of the country finances without having any idea where money was needed and budgeted? You bet I have made a judgment, and I think nobody else here would normally call me a judgmental person or a cynic. We as a Congress were elected to make judgments for the good of our Nation, and we have done so.

And yet none of these esteemed Congress members were so prescient enough to run for the Presidency themselves? But I concur that indeed the impending threat of the Netherlands is enough grounds for impeachment; but has he really not made any attempt to post something? Im pretty sure he recently posted a wall post that was later publicized by someone here and also a news article, I could be wrong. Nevertheless, I don't believe in the compromise of my own ideals for the fear of security. If that were so, then let democracy be an illusion. Anyways, I may be too idealistic. Your experience and knowledge of this game are indeed formidable. I am somewhat convinced of the legitimacy of this decision now. Thanks for engaging in this banter.

I call you a judgemental person all the time MaryamQ

but about the concerns if this is democratic or not, well congress also got a mandate and each congressmember has the power to start an impeachment and vote in every ungoing law-proposal, including that impeachment.

It would be very cynical to only look at the cp's powers, rights and duties and not into these of congress.
While there are indeed justified questions if an impeachment was necessary and if it was necessary that quick, congress has the duty to vote according it's conscience, trying to fairly represent their voters.

NLSP wrote:I call you a judgemental person all the time MaryamQ

but about the concerns if this is democratic or not, well congress also got a mandate and each congressmember has the power to start an impeachment and vote in every ungoing law-proposal, including that impeachment.

It would be very cynical to only look at the cp's powers, rights and duties and not into these of congress.
While there are indeed justified questions if an impeachment was necessary and if it was necessary that quick, congress has the duty to vote according it's conscience, trying to fairly represent their voters.

Congress or the President do not hold the power, the power is within the people who voted for them. So how can you easily justify an elected Congress' impeachment against an elected President? I see no justification at all. That is why in any tripartite democracies, there are what you call 'impeachment trials'. I think that is why we look for strong grounds and proper presentation to prove that such impeachment is indeed valid and legitimate. But as I have said above, I am convinced of the grounds.

With all due respect, Manong, some of our esteemed Congress members have been CP before, and many of us, whether we have been or not, have real life obligations that make it difficult to take on being CP now. This was aggravated by several things. RB did in fact choose a candidate to run, and he was a CM, but our PP disappeared before putting his name in nomination and we were not able to do anything about it, although attempts were made to contact him. Ironically, our choice was the only one who published a campaign article. The only shouts I know about that David Cnudde posted were asking who wanted to be in the government. As I noted earlier, he last published in his newspaper (which has only ever had 2 articles, and one of them was copied and pasted from a wiki), some 40 days before the election. Being idealistic is nice. I am sometimes idealistic, too. But the wolf didn't refrain from eating Little Red Riding Hood because she thought everyone should be kind to animals. You have to be smart, as well as idealistic, or you won't survive.

MaryamQ wrote:With all due respect, Manong, some of our esteemed Congress members have been CP before, and many of us, whether we have been or not, have real life obligations that make it difficult to take on being CP now. This was aggravated by several things. RB did in fact choose a candidate to run, and he was a CM, but our PP disappeared before putting his name in nomination and we were not able to do anything about it, although attempts were made to contact him. Ironically, our choice was the only one who published a campaign article. The only shouts I know about that David Cnudde posted were asking who wanted to be in the government. As I noted earlier, he last published in his newspaper (which has only ever had 2 articles, and one of them was copied and pasted from a wiki), some 40 days before the election. Being idealistic is nice. I am sometimes idealistic, too. But the wolf didn't refrain from eating Little Red Riding Hood because she thought everyone should be kind to animals. You have to be smart, as well as idealistic, or you won't survive.

I am sorry but I cannot yield to those excuses. However, I will not attempt a philosophical banter as all philosophical banters end up badly. Therefore, I will end my argument with this period.

You all should just elect me as CP and I'll expand our borders all the way to Albania.

Well, M.Lev, where were you when people were being nominated?

I was eating tacos and getting pissed at people better than me at Halo. This is a legitimate excuse.

M.Leviathin wrote:March 5th: The Day eBelgium PTOed itself