Behavior off soldiers

Dear collegues and citizen of eBelgium,

I would like to see that people who are paid by the state should not bring the state in conflict by articles and or shout. If they want to do they shouldn't join a army.

So my debat is what to do with soldiers who do this.

I personally think that this soldier shouldn't be paid by the state and must be fired from his/her unit.

If you agree I will make a proposal for debat and bring it for voting.

Sorry but that sounds a bit like censorship to me.
Even if they are soldiers and "payed" by the state, people still have the right to express their opinion in articles or shouts.

I'm glad that after the many threats you made against me in private, you also publicly show your true face.

Soldiers have to be loyal to their country and fight where they are ordered to, however you can't forbid a soldier to have his opinion. If that opinion is different then yours, this is not a reason to censor them.

We should give everyone the opportunity to spread his opinion and it shouldn't be forced to first pass the 'cotarius'-filter or the 'current-gov'-filter. The army is supposed to be seperate from the politics and in the long period I have been in eBe and was in the army, we had people who agreed with the government and people who had disagreed with the government in it and it should stay this way.

If you don't agree with someones view, make an article, discus his view on the forum, convince other people that his view doesn't make sense, but it is low to try to forbid this view.

That's why i made this post to discuss and so it couldn't be deleted like by shouts.

@Fhaemita thanks it is good to see your reply and hope more people will do and hope they say what THEY think I don't censor people by killing comments on a shouts and I can also be wrong so i like good arguments like yours.

People must be able to say what they think imo (as long as they respect some rules).

For instance someone in the army who is also congressman HAS TO express his opinion if he disagrees with the government.

Please understand me good I don't want them to shut up but to be more carefull what they say and how they say it.

Don't sensor them or be programm robots but you have more responsibility.

There is a line here that should not be passed, imo. Yes, say what you think on the forum, but when you make shouts in game, in a military uniform that can be identified, which can hurt the interests of your country diplomatically, and when you also delete comments opposing what you shouted, that is crossing the line. In that uniform, you are representing your country and your unit in a very public way.

MaryamQ wrote:which can hurt the interests of your country diplomatically

isn't that based on personal opinion?
What hurts the interest of your country? I think not taking stance against former invadors, makes eBe look week and hurts it. Someone else would find the opposite of this hurting the interests of the country.
How can you define 'the interests of the country' ? eNL saved a little bit of face and it helped them, when a few of their citizens and soldiers publicly said they were against the unprovoked invasion. But I'm sure that some eNL gov officials at that time wouldn't agree with it.

If you are countering the policy of your government while in that military uniform, I think it can be argued you are working against the interests of your country. You also do not address the point that you in fact censored others' opinions while trying to accuse us of censorship. Not very consistent.

I do not censor opinions, I don't edit/delete posts in the forum based on the opinion in there (if I moderated, it was cause of the form the opinion was expressed or it was placed in the wrong place), in-game you also have a possibility to say whatever you want, without me censoring you.
Shouts are however not always the place for such a discussion and in order to make sure that the message of my shouts don't get snowed under, some comments are removed. But you are free to make a shout yourself to make this opinion public.

Furthermore, I am not aware of any government policy about any war that eNL currently has or had in the last week. I didn't see an article ingame about the eNL wars, I didn't see an official announcement on them or a law voted in congress about them.
Unless you mean that neutrality means that no soldier can shout his opinion about any other eCountry that eBe isn't in war with ?

NLSP wrote:
Soldiers have to be loyal to their country and fight where they are ordered to, however you can't forbid a soldier to have his opinion. If that opinion is different then yours, this is not a reason to censor them.

Just for the side story : the French army's nickname is "the great mute one" because you can't express yourself. You can have your personal opinion but you stfu. ^^

well, if that would become the case in eBe, there are a lot of people who will learn to become silent

do what you want NLSP

edit posts and act like a child

tecuvo wrote:do what you want NLSP

edit posts and act like a child

excuse me?
I don't edit posts with the exception of when my admin/CoC duties require it
I would prefer that people stop hallucinating ...

If the first post is a general request to everyone in general...
... then I agree and urge all in service of our country, or people that can be considered in service of our country, to consider if their posts/shouts can harm the state. Just using common sense.

If the first post is a debate, law proposal or request to someone specific...
... then there is a line.

Here.

And if somebody crosses it, is should be indicated here.

No further pre-fixed law with punishments required, in my opinion.

Think that just like in RL you may have your opinion, but you can not shout out loud, if you disagree, discuss it intern, if you do not find satisfaction after that go shout if you want, but before that you better resign, that's my opinion.
Furthermore is your opinion (whatever it is) in accord with the well-being of our country, something to think twice, is not it?

NLSP wrote:

tecuvo wrote:do what you want NLSP

edit posts and act like a child

excuse me?
I don't edit posts with the exception of when my admin/CoC duties require it
I would prefer that people stop hallucinating ...

That is frankly a semantic game you are playing. No, you may not have edited forum posts. You did, however, edit comments on your in-game shouts, which was witnessed and experienced by several of us (myself included). In effect, you silenced your opposition, exactly what you are accusing people of trying to do to you.

MaryamQ wrote:
That is frankly a semantic game you are playing. No, you may not have edited forum posts. You did, however, edit comments on your in-game shouts

Nop, I can't edit comments on my in-game shouts, if I could I would have let cotarius said: 'you are awesome NLSP and I agree with you <3 ', something I would personally would have found very funny

I however, like said before, removed some comments that would have made the message of my shout less clear. Since that doesn't impair anyone at all to give his opinion in-game, trough his/her own shouts, articles, comments on other people their shouts, comments on articles, you can hardly speak about censorship.

and yes, you can call that a semantic game, I just call that a bad representation of reality

MaryamQ wrote:There is a line here that should not be passed, imo. Yes, say what you think on the forum, but when you make shouts in game, in a military uniform that can be identified, which can hurt the interests of your country diplomatically, and when you also delete comments opposing what you shouted, that is crossing the line. In that uniform, you are representing your country and your unit in a very public way.

+1

Well, removing comments in game is not a problem imo, as it is allowed by admins. If it was on the forum, it would be something else.

As the person can decide to shout himself, or say it on the forum otherway, I do not really see the problem.

it is indeed no problem, admins allow it, so he can do what he wants.
he gives his opinion ingame, and i do it here

case closed

I do believe that as an active and recognisable citizen with one or more public functions (as small as soldier or as big as President) you do have the moral obligation to either shut up in public places about foreign affairs policy or support the government policy. Anything you say beyond that is going to damage the eBelgian foreign affairs policy.

You're always free to resign from public functions if you feel they limit you in your freedom of expression. We do have an opposition around here that is entitled to voicing their opinion. Being a soldier comes with obligations, not only the shinies.

Cotarius wrote:Dear collegues and citizen of eBelgium,

I would like to see that people who are paid by the state should not bring the state in conflict by articles and or shout. If they want to do they shouldn't join a army.

So my debat is what to do with soldiers who do this.

I personally think that this soldier shouldn't be paid by the state and must be fired from his/her unit.

If you agree I will make a proposal for debat and bring it for voting.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion but if you are a gov official or serve the State army you have to use common sense to not express opinions that you know will hurt the State you work for. If you are too stupid to recognise it is hurting than you should get lesson in ethics. If however you don't wish to learn you can be fired for neglect.

The soldier need to decide, is the cause he want to champion more of value than being discharged. If you believe in your cause you should not care to be discharged, honoured even. But any statement in your uniform you should be done with the needed tact, decorum and responsibility.