For Elynea

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 11:17

It seems someone just removed my access to the BfB part of the forum. So Elynea here is your answer:

Elynea wrote:
Olv007 wrote:jamster737, you aren't BfB as well ;-)

And yes the merge was the best thing that could ever happen to eBelgium !

Olv007 : eNL is so different. To have a merge we must have the same way.

Does eBelgium keep his neutrality or not ? eNL is not a friend of ePoland.

i'm happy to see the debate here, because it's necessary.

What the union brought us in past?
What shall we have in the future in positive or in negative?
Is the politics the same?
Who is going to take a decision-making power in politics ?
Do you want a merge for just the progress of our country, and what are thinking the person in eNL?

We can push our population to make an invasion, sorry.

If you see the fun (in the game) with a merge (an invasion) keep us informed.

eNL is indeed so different. But so whas it before the merge. I can not say it will be better because like everybody else I cannot predict the future. I can only say how it was back then. I will try to answer your questions about how it was:

- What the union brought us in past: A strong and respected country and army, more friends, an important place in the e-world, a lot of action, a very active and large community (it motivate people to be part of such community), more activity on the money market and marketplace, a real congress where you actually needed to fight to win your place,...

- What shall we have in the future in positive or in negative: some of the points I have listed above but as said before, I do not predict the future ;-)

- Is the politics the same: what kind of politics are you talking? The way we work? Or are you talking about center, right and left politics? Because we had them all.

- Who is going to take a decision-making power in politics: What do you mean? people will elect a CP and congress. So they will to the decision-making I think?

- Do you want a merge for just the progress of our country, and what are thinking the person in eNL: opinion of people in eNL is like eBE: split. If we can have half of the good things we had with the previous merge then it will be a huge progress for this country.

I do not see the fun in an invasion. I do see the fun to be part of an important and active community with a lot of actions and interactions.

by **shadowukcs** 2011-08-08, 11:35

kk kewl story.

If we ever merge, I'll talk to a few strong milita's (like Rompers), tell them about the great business opportunities in RW'ing eBelgium (pay 20G for the RW's, get 50G + 10 medals back) and see to it that eBelgium gets back on the map that way.

Just saying

The merge was a fail. You say as if it was such a great place but forget to mention the tons of eBelgians that left the union out of protest against this merge.

by **shadowukcs** 2011-08-08, 11:36

oh and why did you still have BfB access in the first place? You haven't been part of that party for 2 months.

by **jamster737** 2011-08-08, 11:49

i removed you because your not in BfB simple

by **Elynea** 2011-08-08, 12:26

thanks Olv, because it's necessary with respect to see the different points of view.

Now i can talk about this union in the past :

Belgium was divided in two parts

- a part went in eNL, the other in efrance. Maybe you didn't see that. But it's a fact.
You will lost every citizen from wallonia... they will go in efrance like the past.

Now if the union was so good, then why i saw article from ebelgian on press in efrance : we want our freedom?

That's why i moved in eBelgium. I saw a lot of critics at this time.

- The Belgian politicians want the decision-making power in eNL ...
- The economy (so beautiful with a merge !) What shares after the separation?

Now, if we lost our neutrality to have more money, it's not a good goal.

You know the eNL doesn't have the same relations with several countries. We are ok for someone, but they don't like ONE's countries.

We don't have problem with ONe's countries, you will put ebelgium in a difficult situation to have more ressources.

Does the eNL want this merge ? Not sure then if they don't want, if a big part of the population of ebelgium don't want too, it's not a merge.

It's an INVASION

If the merge was so nice, the ebelgium would not exist in this time. So a long of time to make our independance, to return in a merge ?

by **shadowukcs** 2011-08-08, 12:38

^ what ely says

Also: economically we wouldn't be better
politically we'd have a Dutch president every single time
the hassle we'd have with money conversion would be disastrous
We'd get RW'd every single day because strong milita's would make a fortune out of RW'ing us.

by **jamster737** 2011-08-08, 12:39

i agree with elynea we will sacrifice relations with one to get more recorces but one can easily take that from us and

Does the eNL want this merge ? Not sure then if they don't want, if a big part of the population of ebelgium don't want too, it's not a merge.

It's an INVASION

+1000

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 12:42

shadowukcs wrote:
Just saying

The merge was a fail. You say as if it was such a great place but forget to mention the tons of eBelgians that left the union out of protest against this merge.

Said a guy who wasn't part of it... Very Happy

Btw I was just answering Elly's question.

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 12:46

jamster737 wrote:i removed you because your not in BfB simple

If you remove the access of someone who was in BfB since the creation of it then don't forget to remove your access on the BfB forum as well.

I also don't recognize you anymore jamster...

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 12:47

shadowukcs wrote:oh and why did you still have BfB access in the first place? You haven't been part of that party for 2 months.

Well yeah, why should I not have access to the BfB part since I left for 2 months? Why now? Why not 2 months ago? Just because I am talking about things people don't like me to talk about?

by **jamster737** 2011-08-08, 12:48

Olv007 wrote:
jamster737 wrote:i removed you because your not in BfB simple

If you remove the access of someone who was in BfB since the creation of it then don't forget to remove your access on the BfB forum as well.

I also don't recognize you anymore jamster...

you are in a different party now so why should you still have access and i am still in it because i am going to rejoin BfB when i get back from my holiday and i think the active players in BfB wont mind me being in the party forum and as for you not recognizing me anymore its because i grew up and started taking sides rather than staying neutral

by **Elynea** 2011-08-08, 12:49

and thanks for your answers Olv, because it's important to see the difference of each parties.

Shadow : you are not for me to a progress of ebelgium. Several points of your programm is not with the politic of the democracy.

I think the army is very important for a country, and to continue the progress for new players.

In a side i don't agree with a merge, and the other party i don't agree with the financing for the army.

The population has a word to say and it is for that that I would like to have more active persons in the bfb, to show the voice of the population.

- keep our neutrality
- keep our good relations (no need a merge to help eNL)
- to progress with a strong army (and it's a very big problem in this moment)
- to progress on economy (a merge wouldn't give you the satisfaction)
Union = division of ressources.

Now you make a pool in eNL to see their view, it's the first thing to make.

by **jamster737** 2011-08-08, 12:51

Elynea wrote:and thanks for your answers Olv, because it's important to see the difference of each parties.

Shadow : you are not for me to a progress of ebelgium. Several points of your programm is not with the politic of the democracy.

I think the army is very important for a country, and to continue the progress for new players.

In a side i don't agree with a merge, and the other party i don't agree with the financing for the army.

The population has a word to say and it is for that that I would like to have more active persons in the bfb, to show the voice of the population.

- keep our neutrality
- keep our good relations (no need a merge to help eNL)
- to progress with a strong army (and it's a very big problem in this moment)
- to progress on economy (a merge wouldn't give you the satisfaction)
Union = division of ressources.

Now you make a pool in eNL to see their view, it's the first thing to make.

dont forget work to improve the BTA

by **Elynea** 2011-08-08, 12:54

In this moment the BTA is nice, they progress well, they have informations, i think they have informations enough and they will soon to go in the regular army...

But it's a point to keep for the futur indeed.

by **jamster737** 2011-08-08, 12:57

Elynea wrote:In this moment the BTA is nice, they progress well, they have informations, i think they have informations enough and they will soon to go in the regular army...

But it's a point to keep for the futur indeed.

i was thinking that it is great in the army regard but we need to help them get into politics and give them more information on goverment positions

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 12:59

Elynea wrote:thanks Olv, because it's necessary with respect to see the different points of view.

Now i can talk about this union in the past :

Belgium was divided in two parts

- a part went in eNL, the other in efrance. Maybe you didn't see that. But it's a fact.
You will lost every citizen from wallonia... they will go in efrance like the past.

Now if the union was so good, then why i saw article from ebelgian on press in efrance : we want our freedom?

That's why i moved in eBelgium. I saw a lot of critics at this time.

- The Belgian politicians want the decision-making power in eNL ...
- The economy (so beautiful with a merge !) What shares after the separation?

Now, if we lost our neutrality to have more money, it's not a good goal.

You know the eNL doesn't have the same relations with several countries. We are ok for someone, but they don't like ONE's countries.

We don't have problem with ONe's countries, you will put ebelgium in a difficult situation to have more ressources.

Does the eNL want this merge ? Not sure then if they don't want, if a big part of the population of ebelgium don't want too, it's not a merge.

It's an INVASION

If the merge was so nice, the ebelgium would not exist in this time. So a long of time to make our independance, to return in a merge ?

Elynea, whatever the solution you choose there will always be people not happy with the decision you take.

For your information, Wallonia was one of the most populated regions of the eUNL. So a lot of Wallonians actually stayed in their e-country to try to do something good. It is easy to run away but it is more difficult to actually try to improve something. Look at me, I am still in eBelgium even if I liked the merge more. I am trying to do the best I can for this country. I will not run away if we don't merge. I like my country. I am just saying why I liked the merge, that's all.

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 13:12

jamster737 wrote:i am still in it because i am going to rejoin BfB when i get back from my holiday

I will also return after my holiday so you can re-activate my access again.

jamster737 wrote:i think the active players in BfB wont mind me being in the party forum

so you are not in BfB but you can talk for the whole party... but yeah... maybe the 2 or 3 active players of BfB won't mind it...

jamster737 wrote:as for you not recognizing me anymore its because i grew up and started taking sides rather than staying neutral

So in your words: staying neutral = being childish?

by **jamster737** 2011-08-08, 13:15

Olv007 wrote:
jamster737 wrote:i am still in it because i am going to rejoin BfB when i get back from my holiday

I will also return after my holiday so you can re-activate my access again.

jamster737 wrote:i think the active players in BfB wont mind me being in the party forum

so you are not in BfB but you can talk for the whole party... but yeah... maybe the 2 or 3 active players of BfB won't mind it...

jamster737 wrote:as for you not recognizing me anymore its because i grew up and started taking sides rather than staying neutral

So in your words: staying neutral = being childish?

my holiday is serious though and i am not talking for the whole party the key word is "i think" and i never left the party like you in the first place and staying neutral doesnt get you anywhere as a person on the country level it is different ofcourse

by **Jofroi** 2011-08-08, 13:41

1: Most walloon leave for France, but that's not because of UNL that's due to the fact that they speak french instead of english. Even now a lot of walloon are in France because their english isn't good. Merging or not won't change that fact.

2: Indeed Elynea, if we force the merge it won't work. A merge must be agreed by both congress.

3: It won't happens tommorow and we all know that foreign affairs can change through time. Before actually merging we could settle a common foreign policy. Once again it'd take time, but we're not in a hurry.

Moreover, they are in trouble with Poland because Poland is erasing them all the time, we would react on the same way if a country was doing the same (that's why we became pro ONE during some times).

But in the future I'm sure that the FA problem could be fixed.

4: During the UNL, the first party of the country was the Belgian Party and we had got several CP. Moreover my first party was a dutch party and I was really fine. The official language was english and then there was no problems at all and not much differentiations between dutch and belgian citizens. The differences were the same than the current one between ATO/ULA/B4H/BCP/BfB.

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 13:57

jamster737 wrote:
my holiday is serious though and i am not talking for the whole party the key word is "i think" and i never left the party like you in the first place and staying neutral doesnt get you anywhere as a person on the country level it is different ofcourse

I left the party for the same reason you could not get support from BfB for your CP candidacy: inactivity. ATO is maybe smaller but a lot more active than BfB.

And I agree that staying neutral doesn't get you anywhere but what is your point by saying that?

by **Elynea** 2011-08-08, 14:04

We are neutral in this moment, we can fight everywhere... what's wrong with that. We are independant : Free

I know what i mean when i say : you will lost our citizens from wallonia, because i was minister of solidarity on efrance, and i had a lot of requests from them : sorry i see ebelgium with eNl, i want to be in ebelgium, i don't play to be in an other country... I prefer then stay in a country to speak french.

Do you really think all ebelgian's were so respected in eNL?

Are we selfish when we say : the merge is better for our economy?
If a majority of the population said No for a merge (and you must prove it's not invasion at start) then you can say, it's a solution ingame to make an stronger eBelgium. I would have the opinion of the population from ebelgium, not only the political position, and the opinion of the population from eNL.

who needs the merge, us or them?

by **Jery** 2011-08-08, 14:26

Elynea wrote:I would have the opinion of the population from ebelgium, not only the political position,

At last somebody asking the opinion of non-politically engaged citizens for such a crucial matter !!! At last somebody that makes me feel like reacting and giving an opinion ! Thank you Elynea !

So many things could be said... I'll just go to the main point, then I'll shut up again :

Jofroi wrote:1: Most walloon leave for France, but that's not because of UNL that's due to the fact that they speak french instead of english. Even now a lot of walloon are in France because their english isn't good. Merging or not won't change that fact.

No ? You're sure ?

Well... I would leave.

And it's not a matter of language, nor a matter of Netherland's people. I would also leave if it was a merge with France or any other country.

I'm not in here because eBelgium is a powerfull country or because of bonuses : it's just not the case. I'm in here because eBelgium means something to me. Merge it into a Frankeinstein's country and I'm not gonna feel anything for that weird monster created by some Congressmen. So yeah, I'll leave it for a country that will bring me better gameplay, the soul of my country having vanished.

For Elynea 56265593tete-de-mort2-gif

by **jamster737** 2011-08-08, 14:36

Olv007 wrote:
jamster737 wrote:
my holiday is serious though and i am not talking for the whole party the key word is "i think" and i never left the party like you in the first place and staying neutral doesnt get you anywhere as a person on the country level it is different ofcourse

I left the party for the same reason you could not get support from BfB for your CP candidacy: inactivity. ATO is maybe smaller but a lot more active than BfB.

And I agree that staying neutral doesn't get you anywhere but what is your point by saying that?

i never got support due to inactivity but it is fine now and i am returning when i get back to belgium so i have access you are in a differenty party thats why you dont have access anyway end this convo now as we have 2 chats on 1 topic

by **xironn** 2011-08-08, 14:37

My reason for not willing to merge with eNL is very simple. Why give away the possibility to actually have an independent country, one where everyone feels at home?
I'm sure a merge will have its positive side, but it has many negative ones as well. Like people loosing their true identity.

by **jamster737** 2011-08-08, 14:40

Jery wrote:
Elynea wrote:I would have the opinion of the population from ebelgium, not only the political position,
At last somebody asking the opinion of non-politically engaged citizens for such a crucial matter !!! At last somebody that makes me feel like reacting and giving an opinion ! Thank you Elynea !

So many things could be said... I'll just go to the main point, then I'll shut up again :

Jofroi wrote:1: Most walloon leave for France, but that's not because of UNL that's due to the fact that they speak french instead of english. Even now a lot of walloon are in France because their english isn't good. Merging or not won't change that fact.
No ? You're sure ?

Well... I would leave.

And it's not a matter of language, nor a matter of Netherland's people. I would also leave if it was a merge with France or any other country.

I'm not in here because eBelgium is a powerfull country or because of bonuses : it's just not the case. I'm in here because eBelgium means something to me. Merge it into a Frankeinstein's country and I'm not gonna feel anything for that weird monster created by some Congressmen. So yeah, I'll leave it for a country that will bring me better gameplay, the soul of my country having vanished.

thank you Jery for your post i agree with you Smile

by **djony** 2011-08-08, 14:51

jamster737 wrote:
Jery wrote:
Elynea wrote:I would have the opinion of the population from ebelgium, not only the political position,
At last somebody asking the opinion of non-politically engaged citizens for such a crucial matter !!! At last somebody that makes me feel like reacting and giving an opinion ! Thank you Elynea !

So many things could be said... I'll just go to the main point, then I'll shut up again :

Jofroi wrote:1: Most walloon leave for France, but that's not because of UNL that's due to the fact that they speak french instead of english. Even now a lot of walloon are in France because their english isn't good. Merging or not won't change that fact.
No ? You're sure ?

Well... I would leave.

And it's not a matter of language, nor a matter of Netherland's people. I would also leave if it was a merge with France or any other country.

I'm not in here because eBelgium is a powerfull country or because of bonuses : it's just not the case. I'm in here because eBelgium means something to me. Merge it into a Frankeinstein's country and I'm not gonna feel anything for that weird monster created by some Congressmen. So yeah, I'll leave it for a country that will bring me better gameplay, the soul of my country having vanished.

thank you Jery for your post i agree with you

I do agree too. Merging would be non sense for me as well.

About the laguage, do we expect then dutch speaking people going to Holland ? German speaking to Germany ? and so on ? Belgium is complexe because of multiple languages. English is indeed just a way to communicate with each other easily.

by **NLSP** 2011-08-08, 15:01

maybe we should stop speaking about a merge and speak about conquering Smile

that would solve already a few issues

by **Elynea** 2011-08-08, 15:14

conquering : we are not invaders.
Thanks for different answers.

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 15:46

jamster737 wrote: end this convo now as we have 2 chats on 1 topic

Ahum... you are the reason we have 2 chats on 1 topic... Rolling Eyes

by **Elynea** 2011-08-08, 16:29

And i'm sure we will have problems with a merge, because if it was so nice, we would be again with them.

The ePoland will see our regions with a new vision.

eNl will see our action like an invasion, and couldn't like that if this invasion and if it is a liberation from ePoland, you say say it to us too. Don't stay on the secret...
The merge is only the decision from some ebelgian's who want more fun, more ressources... the population is not a group...

We made a post about that, and it was clear... if you want a rebellion from the population, you are on a good way.

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 16:50

I give up to explain it further...

Like they say where I come from: FOERT ! Wink

by **Fhaemita Malodorous** 2011-08-08, 17:11

Jery wrote:
Jofroi wrote:1: Most walloon leave for France, but that's not because of UNL that's due to the fact that they speak french instead of english. Even now a lot of walloon are in France because their english isn't good. Merging or not won't change that fact.
[i]No ? You're sure ?

I do agree with Jofroi on this one.
You already see a good part of the Walloons moving to French just because they speak French there.
A majority of the Walloons have a problem with speaking English.

Elynea wrote:The ePoland will see our regions with a new vision.

eNl will see our action like an invasion, and couldn't like that if this invasion and if it is a liberation from ePoland, you say say it to us too. Don't stay on the secret...
The merge is only the decision from some ebelgian's who want more fun, more ressources... the population is not a group...

Poland will not see our regions with a new vision. Last term Mittekemuis talked Poland about Soutern Netherlands and they where willing to coorperate if we wanted to merge with eUNL. So nothing would really change in that aspect.

Also eNL may also be willing to participate in a merger.
Last term I spoke somebody high up in their government who was willing to talk about a merger under eBE flag.

by **shadowukcs** 2011-08-08, 17:59

Olv007 wrote:
shadowukcs wrote:
Just saying

The merge was a fail. You say as if it was such a great place but forget to mention the tons of eBelgians that left the union out of protest against this merge.

Said a guy who wasn't part of it...

Btw I was just answering Elly's question.

I was actually. I wasn't on the forum that often as I was more on the eUK forums at the time (was admin there) but I had several heated discussion with creveroeland (whom I still consider one of the greatest retards I've ever met in this game) on this matter. After eBE and eNL merged, I, as well as many other eBelgians (malchert, Elbanaan, Vettige Swa,...) moved back to eUK because we didn't wanted to be part of this union. We preferred to be e-British than an eDutch-Bitch.

Elynea wrote:Shadow : you are not for me to a progress of ebelgium. Several points of your programm is not with the politic of the democracy.

Well isn't disagreeing with each other what democracy is all about? Also, what are these points you disagree with me on?

Elynea wrote:I think the army is very important for a country, and to continue the progress for new players.

so do I. I think BTA is great, it's just BAF that's s*** imo.

Elynea wrote:In a side i don't agree with a merge, and the other party i don't agree with the financing for the army.

Ditto, I don't agree with the merge either. And I don't agree with the financing for the army either.

Elynea wrote:The population has a word to say and it is for that that I would like to have more active persons in the bfb, to show the voice of the population.

so do I. I would also love to see more ppl speak up and maybe I don't want to see more ppl active in BfB (but rather B4H) I do want to see more ppl in the population voice their opinion.

Elynea wrote:- keep our neutrality
- keep our good relations (no need a merge to help eNL)
- to progress with a strong army (and it's a very big problem in this moment)
- to progress on economy (a merge wouldn't give you the satisfaction)
Union = division of ressources.

I agree with all the of the points above

You see? We aren't that different. I just have a more straight forward way of saying it.

Elynea wrote:In this moment the BTA is nice, they progress well, they have informations, i think they have informations enough and they will soon to go in the regular army...

But it's a point to keep for the futur indeed.

I agree, BTA is going great. It's so great that I wanted to apply for it myself but I keep getting rejected geek

Jofroi wrote:1: Most walloon leave for France, but that's not because of UNL that's due to the fact that they speak french instead of english. Even now a lot of walloon are in France because their english isn't good. Merging or not won't change that fact.

not only waloons would leave. I know I'd leave. And when I look into this topic I see that many would come with me. All you'd do with this merge is half our population in two.

Jofroi wrote:2: Indeed Elynea, if we force the merge it won't work. A merge must be agreed by both congress.

not congress, a referendum amongst all citizens that should get at least a 4/5th majority imo.

Jofroi wrote:4: During the UNL, the first party of the country was the Belgian Party and we had got several CP. Moreover my first party was a dutch party and I was really fine. The official language was english and then there was no problems at all and not much differentiations between dutch and belgian citizens. The differences were the same than the current one between ATO/ULA/B4H/BCP/BfB.

you got like 4 Belgian presidents in power during the entire lifespan. No matter how you look at it, the majority of CP's where all Dutch.

NLSP wrote:maybe we should stop speaking about a merge and speak about conquering
that would solve already a few issues

I can find myself in this

by **Jofroi** 2011-08-08, 19:00

Most CP were dutch but that also might mean that there were more active dutch citizens.

Elynea you state that we're independant and free, with a merge we'd also be independant and free. The only difference would be that there would be more citizens.

The amount of citizens in Belgium and Netherlands is pretty similar so both groups would have their words to say.

For the FA, it's something that is very volatile through time. We can be very friend with Poland and then one day they need a ressource in eBelgium and we're screwed and forced to join the opposite side. Moreover we could work on that. That's more a technical detail than a real problem.

As I already told you: A MERGE WOULD ONLY BE DONE WITH AGREEMENT OF BOTH COUNTRIES.

We won't force them to merge or it'd be an invasion. A merge won't happens in 24h or even in a week. It's a long term process that will take time.

by **Elynea** 2011-08-08, 21:33

jofroi ; i went in eNL since the time of the merge, it was not funny for the person who just speak french and who try to speak english.

Maybe the person who speak usual english is nice there.

We had problems from the former union. I'm right or not.

My question is the same : If the merge was so beautiful, why now ebelgium continued his way alone?

1/2 persons in the BTA are speaking french... they don't come here because the langage is english, don't speak on the chanel, i put always french/english in shout. Why ? for them, for the respect.

For persons who are lost here or in our news i have a lot of private message, and you want a merge?

Sorry, just some persons want it... how much % of the population would have the merge? No a lot.

You can push us to have a merge if the population doesn't want it !

ps : it's an agreement from two groups of persons who were in irc? who didn't care about the opinion of population? Yeah... it's maybe important for you... but you will lost a big part of the ebelgians.

I prefer prevent before you will say : ebelgium is dead.

by **Olv007** 2011-08-08, 23:15

Elynea wrote:jofroi ; i went in eNL since the time of the merge, it was not funny for the person who just speak french and who try to speak english.

Maybe the person who speak usual english is nice there.

We had problems from the former union. I'm right or not.

My question is the same : If the merge was so beautiful, why now ebelgium continued his way alone?

1/2 persons in the BTA are speaking french... they don't come here because the langage is english, don't speak on the chanel, i put always french/english in shout. Why ? for them, for the respect.

For persons who are lost here or in our news i have a lot of private message, and you want a merge?

Sorry, just some persons want it... how much % of the population would have the merge? No a lot.

You can push us to have a merge if the population doesn't want it !

ps : it's an agreement from two groups of persons who were in irc? who didn't care about the opinion of population? Yeah... it's maybe important for you... but you will lost a big part of the ebelgians.

I prefer prevent before you will say : ebelgium is dead.

Ely, we need to talk... Let me know when you are on IRC and I wil come to explain because it's clear you don't understand it.

by **shadowukcs** 2011-08-08, 23:49

I think she does understand. She understands it very good.

Only a handful of ppl actually want this merge

by **jamster737** 2011-08-08, 23:59

shadowukcs wrote:I think she does understand. She understands it very good.

Only a handful of ppl actually want this merge

+1

by **Ward De Bever** 2011-08-09, 04:22

If a merger under Belgian flag with for instance South Netherlands, Lorraine, Rhineland-Palatinate, North Rhine-Westphalia or East England can be negociated with the rightful governments of the Netherlands, France, Germany, the UK ánd Poland, I don't see why not. Zero risk: if they RW, we have a free war.

We would reap HUGE (profit, production, wage, prestige) bonuses from the added region productivities.

Our state could be willing to compensate these governments for the bother with some monthly gold pro rata the 'merger' time (in-game an NE war, conquest and occupation).

Starting to finance it from our Treasury, with recurrent funding sought later, we could give each of the CP's 10-40 gold per month for instance in a public treaty so it would be fully democratic. Everybody would benefit. The main clause would be that Poland will not declare war on Belgium. If the 'merged' region revolts in a RW, we handle that ourselves (Poland will not interfere), and if that RW succeeds, we declare war on them as needed in-game to re-establish the merger. Of course, we need an agreement/pact from the governments and a sizeable support among the active populations of our partner neighbour countries. RW's outside of the 'merged' regios are still handled by Poland; Belgium will not give fighting orders for or against any side.

Why not?

by **Ward De Bever** 2011-08-09, 04:54

- The legitimate CP/government of each of the 'merged neighbour countries' would have at least a VP position under the Belgium CP (or be the Belgian CP himself, eg. Konrad Neumann could become Belgian CP while also the legitimate president of Germany and/or Netherlands under the Belgian Empire Wink

) and exert varied functions in the Belgian government.

- Congress would be Congress.

- French, Dutch and German could be added as auxiliary (somewhat official) languages (can't Google Translate help us when we serve it clear sentences?).

by Monsieur Guillotine 2011-08-09, 05:48

Ward De Bever wrote:If a merger under Belgian flag with for instance South Netherlands, Lorraine, Rhineland-Palatinate, North Rhine-Westphalia or East England can be negociated with the rightful governments of the Netherlands, France, Germany, the UK ánd Poland, I don't see why not. Zero risk: if they RW, we have a free war.

We would reap HUGE (profit, production, wage, prestige) bonuses from the added region productivities.

Our state could be willing to compensate these governments for the bother with some monthly gold pro rata the 'merger' time (in-game an NE war, conquest and occupation).

Starting to finance it from our Treasury, with recurrent funding sought later, we could give each of the CP's 10-40 gold per month for instance in a public treaty so it would be fully democratic. Everybody would benefit. The main clause would be that Poland will not declare war on Belgium. If the 'merged' region revolts in a RW, we handle that ourselves (Poland will not interfere), and if that RW succeeds, we declare war on them as needed in-game to re-establish the merger. Of course, we need an agreement/pact from the governments and a sizeable support among the active populations of our partner neighbour countries. RW's outside of the 'merged' regios are still handled by Poland; Belgium will not give fighting orders for or against any side.

Why not?

Why exactly would German citizens, Dutch citizens, or French citizens want to be part of the eBelgian "empire" when they could just live in their old countries? I seriously don't think they'd want to become Belgian citizens. In fact, they'd just move to a different region in their old country.

If Germany decided to do this super crazy merge where they would have Southern Netherlands, Wallonia, and Lorraine, and you were a citizen of Wallonia, do you really honestly think you'd stay in this new German "empire," or would you rather move back to Brussels or Flanders?

I'm not saying this is a bad idea. I mean sure, if we lived in a society where everyone loved Belgians and wanted to be a part of our glorious nation, then yeah. But this isn't the case. I don't see how this could be probable. I mean yes, it would be great for our economy and all that, but I just don't see how this could work. It's already stretching something to try and work a merge with eBelgium and eNetherlands. But to combine 4 countries? I don't think so.

by **Ward De Bever** 2011-08-09, 06:09

Monsieur Guillotine wrote:Why exactly would German citizens, Dutch citizens, or French citizens want to be part of the eBelgian "empire" when they could just live in their old countries? I seriously don't think they'd want to become Belgian citizens. In fact, they'd just move to a different region in their old country.

Of course most of them will stay in their occupied regions, continuously and frustratedly searching for 1000 CC and mercenaries in order to wage the next fruitless RW against Poland. Some enlightened ones will realise that they can achieve more from here, and benefit from our stability and relative prosperity.

Monsieur Guillotine wrote:If Germany decided to do this super crazy merge where they would have Southern Netherlands, Wallonia, and Lorraine, and you were a citizen of Wallonia, do you really honestly think you'd stay in this new German "empire," or would you rather move back to Brussels or Flanders?

We have the initiative, in-forum and in-game. We will never know if we won't ask them.

- If their governments give positive signals, we should listen to them, just what CP mittekemuis did with Germany on day 1242-1243. That showed her guts. It could have lasted longer if it was even better handled from both sides.
- Their regions are occupied now anyway, so we would give them a choice beween one or the other occupier.
- We would already speak their language Wink

Monsieur Guillotine wrote:I'm not saying this is a bad idea. I mean sure, if we lived in a society where everyone loved Belgians and wanted to be a part of our glorious nation, then yeah. But this isn't the case. I don't see how this could be probable. I mean yes, it would be great for our economy and all that, but I just don't see how this could work. It's already stretching something to try and work a merge with eBelgium and eNetherlands. But to combine 4 countries? I don't think so.

- There are huge benefits for individuals and for communities.
- As an Internationalist, you should know that there are pro-merger communities among each of our original neighbours. 4 countries could be the model for even more. Why not? We just propose them a rent per day that the merger is in effect. No cure, no pay (meaning: if the merger is not 'connected' for 24 hours, the rent will not be paid).

by **jamster737** 2011-08-09, 11:51

There are huge benifits but there are even bigger drawbacks and i dont think we should merge

by **Elynea** 2011-08-09, 12:07

You will win new citizens from eNL, you will lost several players from ebelgium, that's all.

Now, if you would talk about a help to a liberation of eNL from ePoland, it was different for me, but an invasion, i don't like that.

What about the economy of eNL, you can put here the difference ?

MM, Market.... what about a same economy, what will change for us ?

by **Ward De Bever** 2011-08-09, 16:19

pm to Elynea wrote:Je peux, en court, te dire en réponse à tes question sur les effets économiques que:

- 1 bonus de productivité en plus signifie 140 -> 160 points de production, une hausse de 14.2 %. Or, à salaires (105 BEF) et prix de vente constants (FRM à 0.32) actuels, ceci signifie une hausse des bénéfices de 7 à 23 BEF par employé, une augmentation de 228.6 % (plus qu'un triplement!).

- l'inévitable hausse de la population et l'augmentation de la taille de nos marchés n'aura que des effets bénéfiques sur la liquidité des marchés monétaires, de produits et de matiéres premiéres.

Pour les questions de faisabilité/longévité politique et militaire, j'ai argumenté sur le thread mais ce n'est pas ma spécialité.

Pour les questions culturelle et linguistique, nous avons déja l'anglais. On pourrait ajouter trois autres langues... est-ce qu'il n'y aurait pas de moyens techniques pour mettre une traduction Google simultanée dans les discussions avec un certain contenu, corrigible par la suite en effort collaboratif?

Je motiverai encore ces arguments dans la section forum, mais ce sera en Anglais... Réponds-moi par pm si tu veux quand mes phrases ne sont pas claires pour toi. Merci"

Spoiler:

'Quick Better Translation' wrote:In short, my answer to your question about the economic effects is that:

- An added productivity bonus means 140 -> 160 production points, an increase by 14.2%. However, at constant current wages (105 BEF) and selling price (FRM at 0.32 BEF), this means profits increase from 7 to 23 BEF per employee, +228.6% (more than a tripling!).

- The inevitable increase in population and the increase in the size of our markets will only have beneficial effects on the liquidit of money, products and raw materials markets.

For feasibility/longevity issues in the political and military domain, I have argued on the thread but it is not my specialty.

For cultural and linguistic issues, we have already English. We could add three other languages ... iwould there be no technical means to put simultaneous Google translation in discussions with some content, to be corrected later in a collaborative effort?

I still motivate these arguments in the forum section, but it will be in English ... Answer me by pm if you want when my sentences are not clear for you. thank you

by **Elynea** 2011-08-09, 16:40

You see the economic point, i see the view of the population.

I explained that in whisper, because i can't in english.

Do you want make a sacrifice of a part of your population for an economic point?

It's my last question.

by **shadowukcs** 2011-08-09, 18:04

Elynea wrote:You see the economic point, i see the view of the population.

I explained that in whisper, because i can't in english.

Do you want make a sacrifice of a part of your population for an economic point?

It's my last question.

+1

Well spoken Elynea. You would lose half the active eBelgian population with this merge, not to mention that just like last time, I and many others will probably be trying to RW eBelgium back.

by **jamster737** 2011-08-09, 22:05

+1 shadow and i would RW belgium back just for the fun of it (and i rearly need to spend my money xD)

by **Fhaemita Malodorous** 2011-08-10, 00:09

shadowukcs wrote:+1

Well spoken Elynea. You would lose half the active eBelgian population with this merge, not to mention that just like last time, I and many others will probably be trying to RW eBelgium back.

I think your stance is a bit hypocritical Shadow
If it was for a merger with the eUK you would be the first to be shouting to do it.
Only reason you are against it is because it's about a merger with eNL.

by **jamster737** 2011-08-10, 00:13

imo i dont think we should merge with anyone we are fine as we are with our neutrality and i am glad we arnt talking about a merge with the uk (to many trolls)

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