Our military : adapt it to the new changes of the war module ?

http://wiki.erepublik.com/index.php/Military_Module_Update

So, the battles are now divided in 4 divsions as you all know...


Should we continue with our military system in eBelgium, where we focussed on Military Units with "active" members ? With BNA only for BNA soldiers/paras, BTA for young under 1250 str, BCA for civilians, etc...

Or should we transform our system and use our 4 state MU (BTA, BNA, BCA, BPA) to make one MU per division ?

The BTA MU will be renamed "Belgian National Guard - DIVISION 1" and will be available for all the new players until they reach the level 25. They will continue to receive foods/guns from BTA, as it is the case now, just the limit will be changed, it won't be 1250 str anymore but the level 25.

The BCA MU will be renamed "Belgian Soldiers - DIVISION 2" and will be available for all citizens between level 25 and 29.

The BNA MU will be renamed "Belgian Special Forces - DIVISION 3" and will be available for citizens from level 30 to 36. The majority of BNA soldiers are in D3, they could all stay to the regiment 1 and 2 to stay "united" if they want.

The BPA MU will be renamed "Belgian Tanks - DIVISION 4", and will welcome all citizens who are level 37 and more.

The names of the MU are not so original but it will maybe make it more clear for our citizens to understand how we are organized.

The BNA and the paras will continue to organize themselves by mass pm/forum etc...

The eBelgium Military will consist of these 4 MUs, and the Commanders will be choosen by the MoD (MoD for Div1, Aldous for Div2, Tecuvo for Div3, Nohjis for Div4 to keep current leaders in place) and they will be all (+CP) in a mass pm every day to decide orders for each division for all our citizens...

It's just an idea, a draft, it was to bring something to start the debate... ;-)

So should we change our system ? Yes, no ? And if yes, how should we adapt ourself ?

Change AGAIN?
Now the BNA is doing a good job?
And how can you force everyone to move from MU?

The BNA will stay the BNA, as the Paras still exist while we don't have a MU.

It's not a change for a change, it's a change because there have been changes in the military module, and that our system is maybe not the most efficient anymore. Currently when a MU put a DO it's for all divisions, while some divsions rounds are secured and some others are not for example. But it have nothing to do with the BNA. A MU is just a MU...

We will kick out the people who are not in the good MU, pm them, and ask MU leaders to invite them to their MU via the MU invite system.

I didn't make my mind yet on the real efficiency of such a system, it's just a debate, don't shoot me cooke4444... :-x

So, what would be the positives points ?
What would be the negative points ?

(and if the BNA is an issue, it's also a possibility to get a Div 1 MU -the old BTA-, a Div 2 MU -the old BCA-, a Div 3 MU -to find-, a Div 4 MU -the old BPA- for civilians + a BNA MU)

What if something happens like for BAF?

It can still happen with the current system... Nothing new...

The possible goals of this new system would be to have all our citizens ranked by division, with proper DO when needed for each of them...

I like the idea of such an organized army, especially for the first 2 divisions as they are important as well during the battles.

I have been thinking about it. When does the division play a significant role?
The way I see it, only when you are at war and need to organise all your troops. I guess you know what I am talking about Thomas. When a battle is going on and you see Dev 1 and 3 are good but you need soldiers from 2 and 4 you call only those two divisions to fight. That needs an other organisation on irc but not so in the MU itself. By for example a channel to request supplies and an other to direct battle orders

Making new changes may prove a bit too much and not really needed at this point I think. I agree that it will be neat and orderly but will it give more efficiency? I don't know.

ThomasRED wrote:It can still happen with the current system... Nothing new...

The possible goals of this new system would be to have all our citizens ranked by division, with proper DO when needed for each of them...

Do we have so much difference in DO?

For war organizations it's indeed on irc that we need to work, but for 2 clicking mass, it could be an asset...

New players will probably be more integrated if they see our MU are organized by divsions, as in battles, etc... The military organization will become less dark for them and they might want to get more involved more easily. To get DO and MU's goals and communication per division could also boost the dynamics of relations between our citizens, as it did with the BTA and new players.

At the end, it is just to adapt our system to the new rules, but what will remain important for winning battles will be activity and irc ofc...

What about 2 MU?
BTA for DEV 1 and 2
BNA for DEV 3 and 4

That way BCA can keep its status as ingame only fighters and the army has a dividing in army divisions.

Maybe even 3 when you want to split up 1 and 2 I think we have an MU left to do that. I am only thinking about the people you need to run things...

I think the change make sense, but personally i think BNA communication is good enough to accommodate the changes in game play. I do however like mittekemuis suggestion, one should stream line more than make it more cumbersome to administer and manage.

Would also like to hear more of the 'other' requirements, ie paras require more regular DOF's than say BNA, as i understand. Just wonder how these would change?

This won't change, the reform would be more "societal" than military...

It will make our country organized by division, so more easy to manage and to communicate with people.

It will also stimulate random citizens to become more active, to be in a MU with their division, to get common DO goals, to see the shouts for the active citizens calling for help in X battles or annoucing free tanks etc,...

Currently the BCA is nice, but we don't care about it, while there is maybe several citizens who just wait to be "activated", and to be in an "active" MU per division might increase the dynamics of relations between our citizens.

Currently we have a well organized division 1 MU with BTA. There could be a bit more military activation perhaps but this is good and can only serve its purpose through setting DO on battles. The way out should indeed become the end of division 1 and the general description should be adapted to reflect it.

Next to that we have two well organized groups with BNA (mainly div2/3 and a few 4) and Paras (mainly div 4 but also 2 top people in 3) who share an MU. In my opinion for division 3 and 4 you don't really need a separate MU but you do need to separate organisation at least in different regiments with separate captains for both even if you have a centralized commander for all.

Across those divisions we currently have one group with 2-3 missions per week and another group with 7 missions a week. Our groups are currently functioning in the army with some overlapping organisation for divisions 2/3/4 and it's working fine. What and who do we fight for though ? A structural reorganisation can only be usefull if we have real goals to achieve like making a difference in a battle for an ally for at least half of those missions.

Either way it goes, our military structure can and perhaps even should be adapted to the new reality. I do believe it could be a serious added value if we can offer DOs per divisions for allies.

how will you predict where each division will be needed?
If you set a DO nobody now how the battle will evolve, and not all players are on-line when you just need them.
I am not against the ideas I read her above, only try to see what obstacles we can find.
I am also asking if we will have the same effect in the eyes of our allies like we have now, when the paras showing up the effect will be the same of cours, but BNA was till now a pretty pain in the ass when they landed with their 3 levels together, this will end if you tear it apart.
like I said just looking what side effects we can expect, I am sure there will also plenty off positive points

I am not against making the MUs division-specific, but in the case of active fighters in BNA and paras who are participating in the commune system, I think there is a danger of making more rather than less confusion if you divide everyone into separate MUs. I certainly do think it would make sense to separate regiments within an MU by division, as we have already discussed somewhat in BNA, but that is not an easy thing to make happen either, with current rules for MUs requiring 30 members in a regiment before you can create a new one. In addition, you have a problem when trying to move people like TR, tecuvo, Olv and me, because we all have foreign citizenship as SOs and cannot give it up and regain it easily in order to change MUs or even regiments. If we can find a way to work around the obstacles, I think this is a good idea.

+1 on MaryamQ
Also, remember that BTA has Divisions 1 and 2, not just division 1!

I think this new proposed system has some advantages, not huge differences, but it's just really efficient that you know where to look for div2 damage when you know they are in a specific MU.

And I think there are no big disadvantages, except that some members of BNA (div 2 and 4 guys) will not be in their division MU, because i would love to keep all bna members in 1 MU for a while.

I would rush this either, let us look at it, let us find people who can give clear orders when it's needed.

I don't really see this bringing new blood to the battlefield. There are plenty of people who just fight where they want and won't even bother to change MUs if directed. Look how many are still active in the BAF. I like the idea but don't think it is feasible, so I voted no. The mass PMs to different divisions, however, could have the same effect without the MU migration and would be an excellent litmus test. If that is successful then we could explore arranging the MUs differently.

Gibberish45 wrote:Look how many are still active in the BAF.

3. Shadowukcs, avegan & Wolf-stone (+ few others newbies hitting once or twice before to stop playing). The BAF is a belgian cimetery. http://test.egov4you.info/unit/valuation/252

They will have to change of MU, because 1) they will be kicked out of their current MU and will need to join an other one for being able to get DO rewards, 2) they will be invited in the correct MU for their division, 3) they will receive a msg about it, 4) an article will present the reorganization... :-)

By mass pm what do you mean ? Sending a masspm everyday to the 40 guys of Div 1, an other to the 40 guys of Div 2, two other one to the 80 guys of Div 3, one other one to the 15 guys of Div 4, and just to tell them follow your DO ? Without to add you need to be friends ingame with these players to be able to send them a mass pm... It seems complicated but maybe i missunderstood you...

tecuvo wrote:I think this new proposed system has some advantages, not huge differences, but it's just really efficient that you know where to look for div2 damage when you know they are in a specific MU.

And I think there are no big disadvantages, except that some members of BNA (div 2 and 4 guys) will not be in their division MU, because i would love to keep all bna members in 1 MU for a while.

I would rush this either, let us look at it, let us find people who can give clear orders when it's needed.

Either we do the change and we set up 4 MU, one per division, either we don't change at all, or we do a hybrid system, with 4 MU per division for civilians + 1 MU per BNA official soldiers.

About the people to give clear orders when it's needed, we already have them (almost) : BrunoCND (BTA), Aldous Zamiatin (BCA), Tecuvo (BNA), Nohjis (BNA 2nd reg). We would need 1 guy more than now maximum.

Personnaly, i prefer to keep my soldiers in 1 MU, but that's just my opinion ofc

I know we have those people, but maybe they should confirm it theirselves, to be sure.

anyway, count me in

I not a huge fan of a 4 MU structure but:
- It allows for easier recruiting
- It's a very clear thing for a normal player to identify with

My main concern would be that it's equally important to have a communication channel between the active soldiers in the different divisions so that the young can learn from the old and that the group seems somewhat bigger.

Then the hybrid(2) solution proposed by Mitteke is maybe best:
BTA for divisions 1&2 (divided in separate regiments if needed)
BCA and BNA for divisions 3&4 (divided in separate regiments if needed)

But that would force us to up the max strength limit for BTA by a fair amount!

theophyledepatryarkes wrote:Then the hybrid(2) solution proposed by Mitteke is maybe best:
BTA for divisions 1&2 (divided in separate regiments if needed)
BCA and BNA for divisions 3&4 (divided in separate regiments if needed)

But that would force us to up the max strength limit for BTA by a fair amount!

I think we would scrap the strength limit and go with the level ranges used by the 4 divisions in the new war module.