Open letter to all eBelgians

My fellow eBelgians,

It has been little over a week now. A bit longer than seven days since I settled in eBelgium. It felt like a natural chioce and soon proved to be a good one. The heartwarming and genuine welcome I received was indeed a great motivator.

eBelgium had an open mind...projects that earns you nothing but scowls and insults in other eCountries because 'they're not military or economic, so go play Second Life', were welcomed here with great interest.

It has been little over a week now...but what a week it was. Suddenly, the cool, calm waters of eBelgium I had come to appreciate, turned into a whiteheaded, roaring rapid. Insults and accusations, bans and admin warnings, people that quit parties and projects.

Overnight, all that was eBelgium seemingly had vanished. Every word, every syllable was answered with suspicion and paranoia.

Today, many think of leaving eBelgium, others already have.
It is their good right to do so if they want and if they do, I genuinely wish them all the best.

Yet, before you go, allow me to leave you with two small insights...two small items to think about.

First of all...know that it will not be different in other eCountries. In fact, expect it to be worse in many cases.

And secondly, there is an age-old discussion between those that work for the government: what will you do when suddenly someone you don't agree with comes into power ?
Many will indeed say they would leave...that they never could work under someone they so disagree with.

Yet there are some who state they woud stay. Because who else than themselves will make sure all they stand for is somehow defended under other rule ?

So in the end, do ask yourself: will you leave, because you disagree ? Or will you stay, because you disagree ?

I am quite certain most of us are quite fond of eBelgium, otherwise we would not have seen such heated debates and discussion like we did in the last week.

It has been little over a week now...yet I know already I will stay and fight for a better eBelgium, whether I agree with some or not.

It has been little over a week now...what will you do ?

The best of luck,
yours truly,

Adrien de Gerlache

Before we had maybe different opinions, but we worked for the same purpose : to have a nice country.

Now, it's different. A group decided to take the power and to push former Ministers to leave.

We are different, we don't work for the same thing. They only see : The money ! I am not here for the money, I don't work to make some profit.
I can't work with a team who are in a side to make profit.

It is contrary to my principles. Now you are with them or against them, if you choice the second thing, they make all they can to push you to leave the country, it's simple.

To be ebelgian it's not a pleasure in this moment. If you are not with them, they punish you... smile.

I'm not a young girl, but i don't agree with manipulations. I hope the best for ebelgium but not the destruction of it.

Elynea wrote:Before we had maybe different opinions, but we worked for the same purpose : to have a nice country.

Now, it's different. A group decided to take the power and to push former Ministers to leave.

We are different, we don't work for the same thing. They only see : The money ! I am not here for the money, I don't work to make some profit.
I can't work with a team who are in a side to make profit.

It is contrary to my principles. Now you are with them or against them, if you choice the second thing, they make all they can to push you to leave the country, it's simple.

To be ebelgian it's not a pleasure in this moment. If you are not with them, they punish you... smile.

I'm not a young girl, but i don't agree with manipulations. I hope the best for ebelgium but not the destruction of it.

I think you see only money. I mean it is easy to point at someone said say you do it for the money etc. I cannot speak for shadow etc, but if you look at all of my criticisms and arguments, it is a structural one. I argue the problems with the political structures and its consequence to liberalism and democracy. Nothing more and nothing less. I really do not think you even debates the facts and use populism and symbolism/ emotions only to justify your position. It is impossible to debate that for there lacks a quantitative dimension to the dialogue.

I do not care for Ward being banned nor I want to "punish" people of different opinions. but to call people who disagree with your opinions and ontology and simply dismiss it as political manipulations that wants to destroy eBE just highlights the problem with eBE. That you are part of the problem as well.

Adrien I like youre point if view and I agree with you that it became worse.

So please keep it decent and try to talk only over the disputes and not about persons. When this is the first step you will see that the debates will become better and more about the issues.

This is for ALL parties (people)

Elynea wrote:
Now, it's different. A group decided to take the power and to push former Ministers to leave.

We are different, we don't work for the same thing. They only see : The money ! I am not here for the money, I don't work to make some profit.
I can't work with a team who are in a side to make profit.

It is contrary to my principles. Now you are with them or against them, if you choice the second thing, they make all they can to push you to leave the country, it's simple.

To be ebelgian it's not a pleasure in this moment. If you are not with them, they punish you... smile.

I'm not a young girl, but i don't agree with manipulations. I hope the best for ebelgium but not the destruction of it.

1) how have we pushed minsters out you chose to leave

2) Are you crazy we arnt here for the money i have not got any money working for the goverment as VP neither has any of the goverment we are doing this to help belgium are you rearly that blind this is not real life politicians dont get paid

3) by what you write iy is clear you are trying to manupulate the people by lieing and making false accusations

jamster737 wrote:.... this is not real life politicians dont get paid ....

Elected people get 'paid', they get the CongressMedal, which is Gold, let me know if I'm wrong.

As I just started 2 weeks ago, I'm not going to debate much on the how/where/when/why's . I'm still getting to know the people here and how they are in eRep.

I joined primarily for the pride of Belgium, and I'll stick to it, for better or for worse. But I agree, people need to chill and watch their language a bit.

We all speak English, unfortunately, there are many different native languages. So when we write English, please refrain from translating directly and only use correct English, because idioms are difficult to translate.

So leave any phrases which are regional out of conversation, it'll be better for all.

The langage is a wall for person like me who speaks usual french.

I stop to talk about a futur of ebelgium, because soon i will leave this country.
But i hope best things for it.

1) I agree with Jamster. Nobody pushed anyone to demission. There have been a lot of troubles between both parties but unless I'm missing some pieces of information, I don't think that an minister has been directly threatened as being such (Ward excepted).

2)I agree with Jamster, but not totally ^^. Indeed people do not want to be government for money. This doesn't give much cash and the financial part of the game is driven by the congress (even if technically lead by the government). Unless you begin to steal money, indeed.

However, being in the government has 2 major advantages.

1: You own (a lot) of power and some people are seeking for it.
2: You are able to work actively to help your country and to represent it.
3: You have the advantage of being recognized and it's pretty good for your ego.

I'm myself partly in all those categories. Now it depends of each person.

3) Jamster, you know as much as I know that Elynea isn't trying to manipûlate anyone and that she believes in what she state.

However, it's a fact that last month(s?) has been very rude and that the forum atmosphere has decreased a lot. We could point fingers on people or complains, but the fact is that a lot of people are involved in that. I think this is better to try to fix the problem for the future than look back in the past.

Now, the problem is finish jofroi :

I received a lot of mails : you must support....
I had a lot of criticisms in the BFB part : i didn't respect the choice, you didn't support Mg.
I received mails with screens of conversation : jofroi -Thomasred.
Here i received some accusations, i want to manipulate new players... I was a guru... seriously... can you understand now why i'm bored and why i don't want work with this team?

Now i resign my post of education, you must leave the BTA. Ok, no problem.

I believe in a strong ebelgium not just for a group of political persons but for all citizens in ebelgium.

I'm free, and my purpose for ebelgian's it's the liberty. Now it is so far...

ebelgium don't need a woman who likes the liberty... i will go in a country where i will find this liberty, that's all.

Good luck ^^

Jofroi wrote:Good luck ^^

thanks jofroi.

Wait, what?

Sad day.

goopypants wrote:Wait, what?

Sad day.

If i have to resume the situation :
- a proposal is raised to create a MU for new citizens
- government and congress refuse to create it
- BfB launch a citizen project and create a MU with donations from its members and others citizens
- congress was going to accept to fund 10g for the MU but at the end BfB raised enough money
- BfB ask Elynea if she would accept to continue his work for the newbies by being the MU leader
- The BTA MU is created by Elynea, "the mother of eBelgium"
- Elynea give her time and her gold to support the new eBelgians citizens as much as she can
- in //, Elynea continue to be Minister of Education, or SSoE, and publish newbies articles
- The Congress see the success of the MU and want to help finally, by allocating a budget via the MoE
- 4000 bef are donated to buy some foods and to help Elynea
- August : Elynea is accused to be a "guru" and to be the MU leader only to get sheepvoters
- September : Elynea resign from his Education job in the Government
- People ask her to refund the last budget she received for the BTA MU while she spent his own money before to use this budget
- People ask her to leave the MU because it's a government property and want to take it back for themselves

= Elynea left us... But is it really a surprise ? :-/

I agree with Adrien


If you leave because you disagree with certain ppl in the government, you're not going to find anything better in other countries.

I wish elynea all the best of luck and I hope that she finds what she needs, but I strongly doubt it.

shadowukcs wrote:I agree with Adrien


If you leave because you disagree with certain ppl in the government, you're not going to find anything better in other countries.

I wish elynea all the best of luck and I hope that she finds what she needs, but I strongly doubt it.

expecialy in the usa

MORE WAR MORE WAR MORE WAR

ThomasRED wrote:

goopypants wrote:Wait, what?

Sad day.

If i have to resume the situation :
- a proposal is raised to create a MU for new citizens
- government and congress refuse to create it
- BfB launch a citizen project and create a MU with donations from its members and others citizens
- congress was going to accept to fund 10g for the MU but at the end BfB raised enough money
- BfB ask Elynea if she would accept to continue his work for the newbies by being the MU leader
- The BTA MU is created by Elynea, "the mother of eBelgium"
- Elynea give her time and her gold to support the new eBelgians citizens as much as she can
- in //, Elynea continue to be Minister of Education, or SSoE, and publish newbies articles
- The Congress see the success of the MU and want to help finally, by allocating a budget via the MoE
- 4000 bef are donated to buy some foods and to help Elynea
- August : Elynea is accused to be a "guru" and to be the MU leader only to get sheepvoters
- September : Elynea resign from his Education job in the Government
- People ask her to refund the last budget she received for the BTA MU while she spent his own money before to use this budget
- People ask her to leave the MU because it's a government property and want to take it back for themselves

= Elynea left us... But is it really a surprise ? :-/

Not a surprise at all.

Good luck Ely !

ThomasRED wrote:

goopypants wrote:Wait, what?

Sad day.

If i have to resume the situation :
- a proposal is raised to create a MU for new citizens
- government and congress refuse to create it
- BfB launch a citizen project and create a MU with donations from its members and others citizens
- congress was going to accept to fund 10g for the MU but at the end BfB raised enough money
- BfB ask Elynea if she would accept to continue his work for the newbies by being the MU leader
- The BTA MU is created by Elynea, "the mother of eBelgium"
- Elynea give her time and her gold to support the new eBelgians citizens as much as she can
- in //, Elynea continue to be Minister of Education, or SSoE, and publish newbies articles
- The Congress see the success of the MU and want to help finally, by allocating a budget via the MoE
- 4000 bef are donated to buy some foods and to help Elynea
- August : Elynea is accused to be a "guru" and to be the MU leader only to get sheepvoters
- September : Elynea resign from his Education job in the Government
- People ask her to refund the last budget she received for the BTA MU while she spent his own money before to use this budget
- People ask her to leave the MU because it's a government property and want to take it back for themselves

= Elynea left us... But is it really a surprise ? :-/

[sarcasm] yea, because that totally how it went[/sarcasm]

1) the state recently voted to even up her budget to 8k
2) You forgot to mention the part where nearly everyone (including myself) acknowledges that she does great work
3) It's normal she sends the money back if she didn't use it. If she spend her own money to fund the noobs, when she had government money to do that, than that's not only stupid of her, but also tough luck. It's not our problem that she doesn't use the required funds. And if she needed more money before, all she had to do was ask.
4) No one asked asked her to leave or to resign.
5) All I see here is lots of drama by her over nothing. she still has her citizenship, she's still a congresswoman, she hasn't requested CS anywhere.... imo, and sorry to be so blunt but someone has to say it, this is all yet another cry for attention.

shadowukcs wrote:

ThomasRED wrote:

goopypants wrote:Wait, what?

Sad day.

If i have to resume the situation :
- a proposal is raised to create a MU for new citizens
- government and congress refuse to create it
- BfB launch a citizen project and create a MU with donations from its members and others citizens
- congress was going to accept to fund 10g for the MU but at the end BfB raised enough money
- BfB ask Elynea if she would accept to continue his work for the newbies by being the MU leader
- The BTA MU is created by Elynea, "the mother of eBelgium"
- Elynea give her time and her gold to support the new eBelgians citizens as much as she can
- in //, Elynea continue to be Minister of Education, or SSoE, and publish newbies articles
- The Congress see the success of the MU and want to help finally, by allocating a budget via the MoE
- 4000 bef are donated to buy some foods and to help Elynea
- August : Elynea is accused to be a "guru" and to be the MU leader only to get sheepvoters
- September : Elynea resign from his Education job in the Government
- People ask her to refund the last budget she received for the BTA MU while she spent his own money before to use this budget
- People ask her to leave the MU because it's a government property and want to take it back for themselves

= Elynea left us... But is it really a surprise ? :-/

[sarcasm] yea, because that totally how it went[/sarcasm]

1) the state recently voted to even up her budget to 8k
2) You forgot to mention the part where nearly everyone (including myself) acknowledges that she does great work
3) It's normal she sends the money back if she didn't use it. If she spend her own money to fund the noobs, when she had government money to do that, than that's not only stupid of her, but also tough luck. It's not our problem that she doesn't use the required funds. And if she needed more money before, all she had to do was ask.
4) No one asked asked her to leave or to resign.
5) All I see here is lots of drama by her over nothing. she still has her citizenship, she's still a congresswoman, she hasn't requested CS anywhere.... imo, and sorry to be so blunt but someone has to say it, this is all yet another cry for attention.

+1

Political Theater.

shadowukcs wrote:
4) No one asked asked her to leave or to resign.

rofl
I do remember comments like: What are you still doing in the BTA, you resigned, thief, BTA is not for you, ...

If i have to resume the situation :
- a proposal is raised to create a MU for new citizens
- government and congress refuse to create it
- BfB launch a citizen project and create a MU with donations from its members and others citizens
- congress was going to accept to fund 10g for the MU but at the end BfB raised enough money
- BfB ask Elynea if she would accept to continue his work for the newbies by being the MU leader
- The BTA MU is created by Elynea, "the mother of eBelgium"
- Elynea give her time and her gold to support the new eBelgians citizens as much as she can
- in //, Elynea continue to be Minister of Education, or SSoE, and publish newbies articles
- The Congress see the success of the MU and want to help finally, by allocating a budget via the MoE
- 4000 bef are donated to buy some foods and to help Elynea
- August : Elynea is accused to be a "guru" and to be the MU leader only to get sheepvoters
- September : Elynea resign from his Education job in the Government
- People ask her to refund the last budget she received for the BTA MU while she spent his own money before to use this budget
- People ask her to leave the MU because it's a government property and want to take it back for themselves

= Elynea left us... But is it really a surprise ? :-/

U forgot to include the part where congress agreed upon 8000BEF towards BTA. She stated that was too much. If she cries now that it wasn't enough, then its only up to her why it wasn't enough. Even proposals of 10000 or 12000 would've been accepted.
She was doing a great job, we all agreed upon that as well.
The 4000BEF she gave back was her personal money. She didn't need to give that.
She received food worth 4000BEF, she distributed this. So nothing had to come out of her own pocket.

NLSP wrote:

shadowukcs wrote:
4) No one asked asked her to leave or to resign.

rofl
I do remember comments like: What are you still doing in the BTA, you resigned, thief, BTA is not for you, ...

after she voluntarily resigned, yes. If you resign from your RL job and you still walk into your desk every day afterwards, isn't it normal that ppl begin to ask questions then too?

dear shadow,
she had both her job as BTA and as minister
she has done her job for BTA before a ministerpost
she resigned as a minister, not as BTA
she gets a lot of dirt thrown to her (wel also before, but now a bit more)
that is the time these comments came
when she was still BTA leader and hadn't resigned that position

shadowukcs wrote:
after she voluntarily resigned, yes. If you resign from your RL job and you still walk into your desk every day afterwards, isn't it normal that ppl begin to ask questions then too?

She resigned from MoE, not from the BTA, two things distincts. And then people started to tell her : "you're too experienced to be in the BTA, you have too many str, leave it, you're a thief, you use money of the gov, etc..." After all she did for eBelgium, i think everyone can understand she have been hurted by such a behaviour, with not an ounce of respect !

And it's something it seems i'm not the only one to have observed, or to feel ashamed of :

Pieter557 wrote:Elynea did one hell of a job in that MU, she devoted the past 4 months to it, she invested more in eBE then any of you have done, give her what she deserves. I find it awful some people are just so happy to see her leave and to destroy months of hard work.

ThomasRED wrote:

shadowukcs wrote:
after she voluntarily resigned, yes. If you resign from your RL job and you still walk into your desk every day afterwards, isn't it normal that ppl begin to ask questions then too?

She resigned from MoE, not from the BTA, two things distincts. And then people started to tell her : "you're too experienced to be in the BTA, you have too many str, leave it, you're a thief, you use money of the gov, etc..." After all she did for eBelgium, i think everyone can understand she have been hurted by such a behaviour, with not an ounce of respect !

What you dismiss as "lack or respect or bad behaviors" are legitimate concerns. If there is no structural problems, then these concerns or misunderstandings would not take place. As I said it countless times that eBE's structure especially with the BTA and the BAF, but more so with the BTA is really problematic. There are confusion not only with the new but also the old as well. The structure allows a slippery slope for abuse and also allows people to beg the question. You dismiss this all the time and say it is an insult or that I and others are bashing her etc. When I wrote my article about it, you twisted the truth and said that I accused her of being corrupted and guru etc. If you take time and read it slowly, I said it allows the precedence of it. You attack and dismiss what you do not support or like.

Elynea is not the victim here. She resigned because she does not support the ontology of the current government. She also took things personally and she resigned. In the end, I think it is a structural problem and an Elynea personal problem. This 'she is an victim and was forced out" is just not so.

can you actually post something that answers the asked questions???
she resigned as MoE and not from BTA

Almoust all of the people who where active during the time BTA was founded know how it is. There is no real problem with the structure only then that some people forgot it or didn't asked it to they that knew it.

and like posted a million times before by multiple persons: if you get things like 'why are you doing in BTA, BTA is not for you, ...' to your head, I think you can not in all honesty claim that she isn't a victim...

i would just like to post my view that i think the MoE should be head of the BTA as it is the goverments way of educating new players if the MoE isnt in charge then whats his job apart from writing one article ?

oh and btw dont troll this comment as i expect you will try to do

well I understand your point jamster, but that is not how it was in the past or in the present.
This could be a policy change, however I think that continuity is more important than that a direct gov-member does this.
If a competent person is there, this is enough for me.

NLSP wrote:well I understand your point jamster, but that is not how it was in the past or in the present.
This could be a policy change, however I think that continuity is more important than that a direct gov-member does this.
If a competent person is there, this is enough for me.

maybe change the policy where the MoE is head of the BTA and there is a "caretaker" who is 2nd in command who is like elynea's job

The problem is that the Congress can't nationalize the BTA, or decide that this civilian project is now a gov project and that the gov have all the rights on it. As Olv007 said, if the congress/gov had accepted to create this MU in the past, this debate won't have existed. To say i think that congress should decide the BTA is now lead by government is like saying i think that congress should decide that Jamster's companies are now propoperty of the government...

ThomasRED wrote:The problem is that the Congress can't nationalize the BTA, or decide that this civilian project is now a gov project and that the gov have all the rights on it. As Olv007 said, if the congress/gov had accepted to create this MU in the past, this debate won't have existed. To say i think that congress should decide the BTA is now lead by government is like saying i think that congress should decide that Jamster's companies are now propoperty of the government...

That still doesnt answer the point of the fact of the MoE what does he do now ? sit on his backside the whole month ? the MoE should be the one in charge of the BTA and the BAF can have a second in command who runs the show but answers to the MoE

ThomasRED wrote:The problem is that the Congress can't nationalize the BTA, or decide that this civilian project is now a gov project and that the gov have all the rights on it. As Olv007 said, if the congress/gov had accepted to create this MU in the past, this debate won't have existed. To say i think that congress should decide the BTA is now lead by government is like saying i think that congress should decide that Jamster's companies are now propoperty of the government...

I'd support that last one

But really, why not have both? Have one person lead the BTA, independent of the government for the continuity and a second, the MoE, be part of it to help with the FFNC program... I mean, the BTA isn't a necessity to execute the FFNC program... It's just been always used to do it.

COOPERATION

Why do some people make simple things so difficult...

Pieter557 wrote:

ThomasRED wrote:The problem is that the Congress can't nationalize the BTA, or decide that this civilian project is now a gov project and that the gov have all the rights on it. As Olv007 said, if the congress/gov had accepted to create this MU in the past, this debate won't have existed. To say i think that congress should decide the BTA is now lead by government is like saying i think that congress should decide that Jamster's companies are now propoperty of the government...

I'd support that last one

But really, why not have both? Have one person lead the BTA, independent of the government and a second, the MoE be part of it to help with the FFNC program... I mean, the BTA isn't a necessity to execute the FFNC program... It's just been always used to do it.

COOPERATION

Why do some people make simple things so difficult...

its not a case of making it difficult its the case of getting the proper management now elynea is gone we need a new lead and the MoE should take the lead and a selected person from the BAF should be 2nd and do the general running of it

The MoE continue to do what they always did : publish articles to inform citizens on erep updates, publish tutorials for new players, publish tutorial on how to become a successfull businessman, publish tutorial on the mm, publish tutorial on game mechanics, they publish articles on the missions,... They can make a "University of eBelgium" (old project i htink), giving class to citizens on some subjects, etc...

The BTA continue to do what they did : welcoming new players in a MU, answering their questions, creating relationships, inviting them to join the community on forum/irc, linking some usefull articles published by the MoE, distributing foods to help them, organizing some loans of guns/etc... for the missions... (and we have a new lead, Jofroi.)

ThomasRED wrote:The MoE continue to do what they always did : publish articles to inform citizens on erep updates, publish tutorials for new players, publish tutorial on how to become a successfull businessman, publish tutorial on the mm, publish tutorial on game mechanics, they publish articles on the missions,... They can make a "University of eBelgium" (old project i htink), giving class to citizens on some subjects, etc...

The BTA continue to do what they did : welcoming new players in a MU, answering their questions, creating relationships, inviting them to join the community on forum/irc, linking some usefull articles published by the MoE, distributing foods to help them, organizing some loans of guns/etc... for the missions... (and we have a new lead, Jofroi.)

indeed
If for that the MoE wants to become second of command of the BTA, then this can probably happen. The BTA has always been very helpfull and open.

ThomasRED wrote:The MoE continue to do what they always did : publish articles to inform citizens on erep updates, publish tutorials for new players, publish tutorial on how to become a successfull businessman, publish tutorial on the mm, publish tutorial on game mechanics, they publish articles on the missions,... They can make a "University of eBelgium" (old project i htink), giving class to citizens on some subjects, etc...

The BTA continue to do what they did : welcoming new players in a MU, answering their questions, creating relationships, inviting them to join the community on forum/irc, linking some usefull articles published by the MoE, distributing foods to help them, organizing some loans of guns/etc... for the missions... (and we have a new lead, Jofroi.)

Terrible idea and you know it. This is nothing more than Jofroi and a few others buying up sheep voters. As long as BTA is not controlled by the state, but acts like it is part of the state etc, is the problem. The MoE should have command of the BTA as it eliminates the conflict of interest. Staying the same is the problem. I support Jamster's idea that the BTA should be a part of the MoE, and rejects the idea that the BTA should be the main institution that distributes food, loans etc.

Konrad Neumann wrote:

ThomasRED wrote:The MoE continue to do what they always did : publish articles to inform citizens on erep updates, publish tutorials for new players, publish tutorial on how to become a successfull businessman, publish tutorial on the mm, publish tutorial on game mechanics, they publish articles on the missions,... They can make a "University of eBelgium" (old project i htink), giving class to citizens on some subjects, etc...

The BTA continue to do what they did : welcoming new players in a MU, answering their questions, creating relationships, inviting them to join the community on forum/irc, linking some usefull articles published by the MoE, distributing foods to help them, organizing some loans of guns/etc... for the missions... (and we have a new lead, Jofroi.)

Terrible idea and you know it. This is nothing more than Jofroi and a few others buying up sheep voters. As long as BTA is not controlled by the state, but acts like it is part of the state etc, is the problem. The MoE should have command of the BTA as it eliminates the conflict of interest. Staying the same is the problem. I support Jamster's idea that the BTA should be a part of the MoE, and rejects the idea that the BTA should be the main institution that distributes food, loans etc.

first of all: you are very low of starting again to claim that this is buyinsg up sheep voters
second: the state had the possibility to buy for an MU for newbies, but congress didn't wanted
Third: when did the BTA acted like that they where the state?
Fourth: since when is the BTA the main institution of loan distribution??? since when does it has a loan program?
Fifth: so you are against taxes that aren't implemented in game mechanics, but you want to nationalise an military unit where citizens has payed for?

NLSP wrote:

Konrad Neumann wrote:

ThomasRED wrote:The MoE continue to do what they always did : publish articles to inform citizens on erep updates, publish tutorials for new players, publish tutorial on how to become a successfull businessman, publish tutorial on the mm, publish tutorial on game mechanics, they publish articles on the missions,... They can make a "University of eBelgium" (old project i htink), giving class to citizens on some subjects, etc...

The BTA continue to do what they did : welcoming new players in a MU, answering their questions, creating relationships, inviting them to join the community on forum/irc, linking some usefull articles published by the MoE, distributing foods to help them, organizing some loans of guns/etc... for the missions... (and we have a new lead, Jofroi.)

Terrible idea and you know it. This is nothing more than Jofroi and a few others buying up sheep voters. As long as BTA is not controlled by the state, but acts like it is part of the state etc, is the problem. The MoE should have command of the BTA as it eliminates the conflict of interest. Staying the same is the problem. I support Jamster's idea that the BTA should be a part of the MoE, and rejects the idea that the BTA should be the main institution that distributes food, loans etc.

first of all: you are very low of starting again to claim that this is buyinsg up sheep voters
second: the state had the possibility to buy for an MU for newbies, but congress didn't wanted
Third: when did the BTA acted like that they where the state?
Fourth: since when is the BTA the main institution of loan distribution??? since when does it has a loan program?
Fifth: so you are against taxes that aren't implemented in game mechanics, but you want to nationalise an military unit where citizens has payed for?

First: It is a fair and legit concern. I do not care if it is low or not, it is a structural problem and people do low things like PTO and bribing people.

Second: The law states that the congress appropriate money to the gov for food etc. BTA is not part of the state and does not by default should expect funding at all from the state.

Third: There was until today by your admission that the BTA is not part of the state and that it is private. In the past, the BTA is convoluted between is it a state institution or a private institution. This lack of clarity creates a conflict of interest and mass confusion for both the new and old.

Forth: Read that TD wrote

Fifth: I am not for absolute nationalize of it. I want to have a clear definition of who owns the BTA. This middle idea that it is part of the state and it is private is what I am against. There is benefits and problems with both private or not. But we must have a clear definition.

Konrad Neumann wrote:

ThomasRED wrote:The MoE continue to do what they always did : publish articles to inform citizens on erep updates, publish tutorials for new players, publish tutorial on how to become a successfull businessman, publish tutorial on the mm, publish tutorial on game mechanics, they publish articles on the missions,... They can make a "University of eBelgium" (old project i htink), giving class to citizens on some subjects, etc...

The BTA continue to do what they did : welcoming new players in a MU, answering their questions, creating relationships, inviting them to join the community on forum/irc, linking some usefull articles published by the MoE, distributing foods to help them, organizing some loans of guns/etc... for the missions... (and we have a new lead, Jofroi.)

Terrible idea and you know it. This is nothing more than Jofroi and a few others buying up sheep voters. As long as BTA is not controlled by the state, but acts like it is part of the state etc, is the problem. The MoE should have command of the BTA as it eliminates the conflict of interest. Staying the same is the problem. I support Jamster's idea that the BTA should be a part of the MoE, and rejects the idea that the BTA should be the main institution that distributes food, loans etc.

+1 i think the goverment should control the BTA as its main perpose is education and that is the job of the minister of education

jamster737 wrote:

Konrad Neumann wrote:

ThomasRED wrote:The MoE continue to do what they always did : publish articles to inform citizens on erep updates, publish tutorials for new players, publish tutorial on how to become a successfull businessman, publish tutorial on the mm, publish tutorial on game mechanics, they publish articles on the missions,... They can make a "University of eBelgium" (old project i htink), giving class to citizens on some subjects, etc...

The BTA continue to do what they did : welcoming new players in a MU, answering their questions, creating relationships, inviting them to join the community on forum/irc, linking some usefull articles published by the MoE, distributing foods to help them, organizing some loans of guns/etc... for the missions... (and we have a new lead, Jofroi.)

Terrible idea and you know it. This is nothing more than Jofroi and a few others buying up sheep voters. As long as BTA is not controlled by the state, but acts like it is part of the state etc, is the problem. The MoE should have command of the BTA as it eliminates the conflict of interest. Staying the same is the problem. I support Jamster's idea that the BTA should be a part of the MoE, and rejects the idea that the BTA should be the main institution that distributes food, loans etc.

+1 i think the goverment should control the BTA as its main perpose is education and that is the job of the minister of education

The newbies should be educated to vote for themselves except under the circumstances of a PTO in which they should be informed on who is safe and who isn't.

i think they both should be separate, but under the supervision of the MoE.
BTA was started as a private funded operation, so the government has no right to claim leadership over it.
Congress decided to increase the funds towards the project. It is a private project, receiving state funds. I don't see a problem with it as long as the MoE keeps supervision of the unit and see if the funds are spent towards the right goal. This is FFNC mainly.
I know 100% sure Elynea has never pushed anyone towards any political party. This should remain this way. With the MoE supervising the BTA this should be prevented. If she did, explain me why ATO and BFB had stable membership numbers during her period in charge.
And have some trust in one another.

+1

xironn wrote:i think they both should be separate, but under the supervision of the MoE.
BTA was started as a private funded operation, so the government has no right to claim leadership over it.
Congress decided to increase the funds towards the project. It is a private project, receiving state funds. I don't see a problem with it as long as the MoE keeps supervision of the unit and see if the funds are spent towards the right goal. This is FFNC mainly.
I know 100% sure Elynea has never pushed anyone towards any political party. This should remain this way. With the MoE supervising the BTA this should be prevented. If she did, explain me why ATO and BFB had stable membership numbers during her period in charge.
And have some trust in one another.

I can agree with this.
Also when elynea was leading the BTA, there was some kind of supervision and so. (she didn't get the funds as money, but got the food for example)

xironn wrote:i think they both should be separate, but under the supervision of the MoE.
BTA was started as a private funded operation, so the government has no right to claim leadership over it.
Congress decided to increase the funds towards the project. It is a private project, receiving state funds. I don't see a problem with it as long as the MoE keeps supervision of the unit and see if the funds are spent towards the right goal. This is FFNC mainly.
I know 100% sure Elynea has never pushed anyone towards any political party. This should remain this way. With the MoE supervising the BTA this should be prevented. If she did, explain me why ATO and BFB had stable membership numbers during her period in charge.
And have some trust in one another.

I do not like this for the structure remains problematic. I do not care about Elynea and the whole thing is not about Elynea but about the the structure. It is run by Jofroi now, a person who PTOed parties and bribe CP candidates so that he can win CP. The structure itself is a problem.

So if your plan is to come into effect, you need to define supervision. Does supervision comes with a MoE veto power to the privately owned BTA. For in the end, if it is privately one, what power or real supervision does the MoE have over the BTA, what leverage does the state have over the BTA?

Konrad Neumann wrote:

xironn wrote:i think they both should be separate, but under the supervision of the MoE.
BTA was started as a private funded operation, so the government has no right to claim leadership over it.
Congress decided to increase the funds towards the project. It is a private project, receiving state funds. I don't see a problem with it as long as the MoE keeps supervision of the unit and see if the funds are spent towards the right goal. This is FFNC mainly.
I know 100% sure Elynea has never pushed anyone towards any political party. This should remain this way. With the MoE supervising the BTA this should be prevented. If she did, explain me why ATO and BFB had stable membership numbers during her period in charge.
And have some trust in one another.

I do not like this for the structure remains problematic. I do not care about Elynea and the whole thing is not about Elynea but about the the structure. It is run by Jofroi now, a person who PTOed parties and bribe CP candidates so that he can win CP. The structure itself is a problem.

So if your plan is to come into effect, you need to define supervision. Does supervision comes with a MoE veto power to the privately owned BTA. For in the end, if it is privately one, what power or real supervision does the MoE have over the BTA, what leverage does the state have over the BTA?

As Guillontine has now appointed me Minister of Education, I'd like to see a conclusion made and put into practice ASAP. It would be good if I could at least get it set up and running for a while before the next MoE comes and replaces me.

If things don't work out, we can change them. Its ok, mistakes happen, ideas pop up, we are here to improve the average Belgian's life. We just need it perfected soon to make sure it is improving the newbies experience in this country.

Konrad, I really begin to think that you have something against me^^. For 3 weeks you've attacked me all the time whatever I did (or didn't do), even when there were no reasons.

Now I'd like you to stop attacking me all the time, or I'll have to propose a trial for diffamation and attacks. I really want to calm down the situation on the forum, but if you don't want to stop even if there is no more reason slandering me, you won't leave me any choice.

Konrad Neumann wrote:
I do not like this for the structure remains problematic. I do not care about Elynea and the whole thing is not about Elynea but about the the structure. It is run by Jofroi now, a person who PTOed parties and bribe CP candidates so that he can win CP. The structure itself is a problem.

So if your plan is to come into effect, you need to define supervision. Does supervision comes with a MoE veto power to the privately owned BTA. For in the end, if it is privately one, what power or real supervision does the MoE have over the BTA, what leverage does the state have over the BTA?

Under supervision i mean: Monitor what happens with the funds, are the funds sufficient. MoE also checks the BTA if enough progress is made among it's members.

something along those lines