We need a plan for the future

We need a plan,


As you all know, the organization is deplorable during this war against the ELN and if we don't want that it again when they will come back in one week or 2 months or when we will be the target of the eUK or the eFrance.

Everyone thinks that the problem is only present since this war, but look to all problems that we met and meet, I think that it would also had problems if the war had taken place under the presidence of Nohjis.
Indeed, we didn't have any more a competitive army, we have no plan of defense, it unclear who contacted apart the Venezuela and one or two countries to sign MPP's or ask help, we don't have War budget. So yes, with Nohjis it could have been better, but would we have been a chance against a country like eNL who signed tons of MPPs in 2 days? And has an active army, and with citizen behind to help if needed ?

So I believe that it is imperative to work on a refurbishment of our army, our communication. And especially to prepare defense plans, if countries like the France attack us.
We have to know who we are able to contact if we get involved in a war with our neighbors. We have to take the decision faster then the past: we lose 2 days in debates and votes for one MPP, that's mean that we lose the help of a friend country during 2 battles.

We have to be prepared for every eventuality, for every possibility, we need a strategy for all of them to help our futures governments to be faster in their decisions, we need an already prepared war budget, we need prepared communication message, we need a plan if a special hierarchy is needed during war, we need a list of possible MPP's, everything has to be prepared to give us a chance to win, or to survive ^^.


This topic will not be about the ongoing war or only to take lessons of the past.


And don't say that we don't need plans for an attack from eFrance, because we were friends with them 1 year ago, but it didn't impeach them to attack us, same for eNL today^^.

I could not agree more with you. I really miss the time when BAF was a real army with a decent organization and coordination.

Right now BAF is nothing more than a commune.

Chasseurs Ardennais en force!


Yes sure, i think we need to take lessons of our past mistake and try to make a better BAF then ever.

Maybe a more selective army to be able to follow every soldiers.

lol BAF is pretty selective right now that's one of the problems

But I agree things have to change

Don't know how BAF works for the moment.

But according to me be selective is to take soldiers who will work in communes (if there are), will fight during IRC raids, will follow orders,... The strength level is not really the most important things, just the activity and the investment in BAF life.

Gerdeblee, I agree with you that an invasion under my Presidency would probably have been disastrous as well. Due to specific circumstances, the current government has been very slow in Foreign Affairs and Defense. The only difference is that perhaps last month the reaction would've been faster, but I doubt it to have been much more successfull.

What we lack today is experienced people working for eBelgium, an organized army and motivation.

My entire game existance so far has been focused on activating new blood. What can be seen today is that they lack the required experience (normal) and that those with the experience are either not willing to train these new people (not normal) or don't have the time on their hands (can happen). If anything, I see this as a training session for all of them. They will learn how the military module works, what the importance of friends is, how and when to hit in a mini. The only true mistakes I've seen so far when it comes to this is a lack of fast decision-making and a lack of daring to take initiative out of fear of doing something wrong.

There is no longer an army like the BAF. What's left of it is a big empty shell holding non-coordinated fighters. The only possible solution is to return to a general and commander willing to lead an army because yes, those 7m damage a day could make a difference today too. You can't just pick anyone to lead the army and that's where it's going wrong because
1. Noone really wants to step up and make something out of the position
2. shadowukcs has been uncooperative

Honestly, that is the only thing I regret about my previous two terms, not being able to blow new life into the army.

Lastly, motivation:
For me it's extremely disapointing to see hardly anyone believes in our possibilities. It's gotten to the point that I barely see more then 2 top Belgians fighting in top 5 in a same mini. I'll be very harsh for everyone: if you don't want to fight for your country, you deserve to be wiped. If I hadn't done 6m damage in the Flanders RW, we would've lost during the night and despite the mistake in the 8th mini, requiring millions of extra damages to win the battle we did as people believed we could win. Sometimes that's all it takes to win a fight, one person to take all others along with them, let that person be you.

Motivated eBelgians:
http://battle-watcher.com/battle.php?id=22992

Not motivated eBelgians:
http://battle-watcher.com/battle.php?id=23038
http://battle-watcher.com/battle.php?id=23067

Honestly winning Wallonia was a fluke, we were just extremely lucky to have help from the people that started the RW probably. I know that many of us used a lot of resources for the first RW but all you need to do is believe and start working for your country.

The BAF is nominally under the government through the MoD, but has always been run semi-independently under the HC. Congress exerted minimal control previously through funding, but once the BAF set up a supply system that control lapsed to almost nil.

The original complaint was that NLSP and TR were running the BAF as a private army. Then Shadow took control, and now the complaint is that... Shadow is running the BAF as his own private army.

If congress wants a military under the control of congress, congress should propose such. 40G for a new MU and a budget for that MU is all that is really required.

As for the government or congress reorganizing the existing MU, just check
http://www.erepbelgium.com/t5504-the-future-of-baf

goopypants wrote:The original complaint was that NLSP and TR were running the BAF as a private army. Then Shadow took control, and now the complaint is that... Shadow is running the BAF as his own private army.

If congress wants a military under the control of congress, congress should propose such. 40G for a new MU and a budget for that MU is all that is really required.

Sounds a bit like eUS the problems they had with the military over a year ago.
Congress wanted more control over military, they told congress to f*** off and broke off and the eUS made a new military

I don't think congress should have too much control over the military though.

for anyone living in a dreamworld:
the problem is not who controls the military, the problem is that there is no military and that excuse for a military we have, is not transparent about what they do....

Hey I'm a newbie here and surely not a top fighter my two bazooka and a half won't make a difference. But I noticed a thing or two:

Being a the baf I can tell there almost no orders given. I only here fight here but don't use bazooka and health kit. That is a very fine order but we got the same one for every battle so don't expect much fire power. Plus it only comes from tecuvo who is not even captain. I never hear anything from the commander(s). I don't want to throw any flower to nohjis, he will soon look pink instead of blue. But I think that is not the case at the baby army. There is a real shout community.

Which brings me to my second point. You speak about irc raid. I don't know about you but I can't be constantly on irc. For me the shout is still the best way to alert people because you see them when you are on the website. There you can advertise the irc meeting raid or what ever require more coordination. (I speak of course of the military shout).

Thirdly a lot is discuss in this forum and that is probably more of a personal complain but with that many topics it is (for me) impossible to follow it all. This forum is a mess. I know this last one is probably the less relevant and the hardest to change. It just make me feel better.

because all this is so serious here is the dancing pig

BAF soldiers were previously informed of orders by : pulse orders / ingame mass pm thread / forum orders / MU shouts and IRC. So communication shouldn't be a problem...

Good to have some informations about how it's work in BAF.

It's sure, we have to form a BAF 2.0, with more active member.

But I ask now to the player who are active for last weeks (i came back only one month ago), about what block the BAF developpement ?

Only the inactivity or non-cooperation of Shadowukcs or do we have other problems ?

one other problem is currently only 10 soldiers get supplies

We need a real leader like TR. We need a structure again in BAF with different regiment and rankings. We need to find a way to show the soldiers the results of their fights to motivate them.

I know this is a lot of work but with several of us we could do it.

Jonathan Clay wrote:one other problem is currently only 10 soldiers get supplies

And of course we need a better commune system

Jonathan Clay wrote:one other problem is currently only 10 soldiers get supplies

I think this problem is mostly linked to the first. An active commander and/or General should be able to find about 20-30 extra spots perhaps not all by people who will go live in a 100% bonus country but still, nothing stops an army from having different supply levels as long as they're structured. Some of these spots perhaps need some funding or loans to be available so that the supplier gets enough raw companies for them.

Olv007 wrote:We need to find a way to show the soldiers the results of their fights to motivate them.

A BAF newspaper with weekly articles to show what BAF done ?

And maybe give more importance to ribbons.

Olv007 wrote:We need a real leader like TR.

As predicted people are going to use this as way to go back as it was as NLSP/TR private army

goopypants wrote:The original complaint was that NLSP and TR were running the BAF as a private army. Then Shadow took control, and now the complaint is that... Shadow is running the BAF as his own private army.

The original complaint of who ? Seriously, the only complaints BAF received few months ago were mainly from Shadowukcs and these critics were personal against NLSP, Ward and me, and have lead us to step back. (Didn't he said he won't give up the MU to be sure ThomasRED won't become Commander again ?) Critics were about the inefficacity of the BAF ? The fact we were not transparent ? That BAF were used to help ThomasRed's friend Venezuela ? We were dealing several millions damages each day, we had a public gdoc with a daily account sheet about our supplies and our funding, BAF and FAN have helped each others in several occasions, etc...

Now, the critics against the BAF runned by Shadow are not personal, it's about a lack of content. Even if i'm not shadow's best friend, it's not a personal thing, it's that i expect something out from the national army.

When Ward, NLSP and I runned the BAF, we had an good organization, soldiers were active on the forum, we had avatars designers to help everyon wearing the uniform, orders were updated daily on the forum, we had a mass pm thread in which all orders and informations were communicated every day, we had an active MU with only soldiers (no random guys) and several shouts a day to update orders, we used Pulse to track damages and analyze them, we published BAF reports in the media, we were dealing 7-8m dmg in one single battle, we had up to 32 soldiers, we had polls about how to run the BAF, we were several soldiers active on irc daily and few more during special IRC strike, we had requirements for activity and to respect our orders.

What did we had since Shadow runned the BAF ? A private list of 12-13 soldiers, no activity on irc, not a single recruitment article or report published, no daily orders updated on the forum, no mass pm thread every day, no irc strike, no pulse datas, no forum activity, no avatars, no MU for soldiers only, MU orders were to hit for mercenary medals, etc... The BAF became a commune, nothing more.

Shadowukcs have always been against the idea of a national army, and he succeeded in destroying it. People have allow him to do so, and to throw away without respect the people who have helped eBelgium and the BAF for long (i'm still ashamed of the treatment reserved to Ward, i won't talk of NLSP or me).

So thanks to not compared the BAF as it was when we runned it with NLSP and Ward, with a lot of dedication and commitment, with the BAF as it is now... :-/

I didn't want to offend anybody. Just wanted to say that as a baf newbie i didn't feel led very precisely.

Sorry for the big image in red the famous (don't use bazooka) in blue read that article which say don"t fight when the bar is above 60 and don't use bazooka.
I didn't see any "irc raid at 5pm" or a "lets all attack a midnight" which is what I meant by my previous post.
And again this is more about what we can do next time then what we could have done.



ps if I offended anyone with my forum issues I apologies like for example the admin . This is a complain I would do to all forum anyway. I am not really a forum type.

Fhaemita Malodorous wrote:

Olv007 wrote:We need a real leader like TR.

As predicted people are going to use this as way to go back as it was as NLSP/TR private army

What's your solution then? Right now Shad's private army is the biggest fail in BAF's history...

Fhaemita Malodorous wrote:

Olv007 wrote:We need a real leader like TR.

As predicted people are going to use this as way to go back as it was as NLSP/TR private army

He didn't say they need TR to command it, he said they needed a leader like him. I'm not doing a lot of things with BTA, I dedicate approximately half an hour a day to the guys and a part of my income like any other SO but it's already causing me to get pink...

As you said, congress doesn't need too much power over the army but the army either needs to be organized or we need to decide to have no army because noone will do it. I would find the last part a shame really.

one other problem is currently only 10 soldiers get supplies

That at least I can't complain about I receive enough supplies

Yes because you're one of the 10 who gets supplies (just like me)

Yes because you're one of the 10 who gets supplies (just like me)

Yey, I am one of the 10.

Sounds cool

Although I agree that the current situation with Shadow needs to change I don't think going back to the situation with NLSP/TR/Ward. You make it sound like all the critics where personal and everything was picture perfect while it wasn't. Especially durint TR/NLSP time the supplies where low, once a week and most of the times the supplies where at least 2 days too late. yes the situation was better then now the BAF is pretty much useless these days but it wasn't perfect in the past either.

The lack of supplies was easily compensated by all the other things that made us to like BAF far more than it is today.

Even if it isn't one of this player leading our army, we surely need a high experienced player to take war decisions and propose some stategies.

According to this, TR and NLSP could surely be nice solutions. Just as a General or something like this. Someone who has knowledge and is used to fight a lot.

Fhaemita Malodorous wrote:Especially durint TR/NLSP time the supplies where low, once a week and most of the times the supplies where at least 2 days too late. yes the situation was better then now the BAF is pretty much useless these days but it wasn't perfect in the past either.

Don't start this old debate again to criticize the old BAF, critics are allowed when they are justified, but you know that it is the soldiers themselves who voted in a poll to receive weekly supplies instead of daily supplies.

Spoiler:

About the supplies, the supplies delivered where the maximum number of supplies that we were able to produced at that time, using no BEF to buy raws and producing weapons in a 100% country. A new plan was made to offer 20 Q6 weapons per day to 30 soldiers (or less but with Q6 foods too), but Congress rejected it.

As i said it's an old debate, but it's good to not spread wrong facts.

Let's not go in to an endless discussion which system was worse/better but try to work on a proposal Congress can vote on.

Are there some guys who want to work together on a proposal Congress can vote on later?

ThomasRED wrote:Don't start this old debate again to criticize the old BAF, critics are allowed when they are justified, but you know that it is the soldiers themselves who voted in a poll to receive weekly supplies instead of daily supplies.

So You can say how great it was in the past and how crappy it is now but putting it in perspective and state that it wasn't as perfect as you make it out to be?
My point was that almost every week the weekly supplies where at least 2 or 3 days late.

The supplies were 2 or 3 days late at the end, before during some months we gave the supplies without retard.

We have to work on it to improve supplies and distribution of it.

Maybe have 2 suppliers which will work only one of the 2 times. Or only one months on 2

Jonathan Clay wrote:
Are there some guys who want to work together on a proposal Congress can vote on later?

I think many of use would like to work on something but for this we need a strong character to pull this army forward. Medrolke maybe since he's eBelgian again

Fhaemita Malodorous wrote:So You can say how great it was in the past and how crappy it is now but putting it in perspective and state that it wasn't as perfect as you make it out to be?
My point was that almost every week the weekly supplies where at least 2 or 3 days late.

Check your facts once again, instead of spreading wrong informations.



NLSP, Ward and me didn't quitted the BAF because the BAF was in a crappy situation, but because we made a supply plan that was accepted by Congress at first before to be repealed after heavy complaints from shadowukcs about the funding, the cost, and the use of a national army in eBelgium. Congress choose an other option, and i'm okay with that, but don't spit on the work of people who have comitted themselves to eBE and invested hundreds of hours to make the BAF an efficient army. As i said, justified critics are ok, but spreading lies is disgusting me and it explain, as NLSP said, why there is so much difficulty to find a new General, the only thing you got is contempt... But thanks to allow me to post a screenshot of our gdoc to prove the transparency of the old BAF... :-/

No need to argue that:

1. We need supplies:
We have a new way of setting up a wonderful supply system with when necessary loans to SO who will provide 10 Guns a day for 2 months and then move to 18. It is better then the old one and I'm sure everyone is in favor of the new one. I'm not aware of frequency/being on time of supplies now but everyone will agree that more on time is better.

2. We need leadership:
We used to have great leadership in directing an MU and providing soldiers with missions and stuff to do.

Merge both and we have a new national army. k thx
Number 1 can be managed by anyone really
Number 2 well you need a strong leader with time for this

For number 1, you need Q6 managers to be 100% efficient if possible. So it's not really anyone neither... But Q5 is better than nothing indeed.

The great problem of supplies, is for suppliers

Because for suppliers it's sometime difficult to have the motivation or the time for that. And when we have 10 it's easiest, but when it's for 40 soldiers ^^.

As noted, from various contacts made during my term as CP I know there are many spaces available, all these people really need is someone asking for it and giving them minimal support to set up their lands correctly.

I'm available for some free spots in my Q6 weapon company, as well some Q5 WRM.

I made two topics in the congress debate area (so it can be voted on if necessary) asking for a new general and supply officers.

When we have a clear idea who's available it might be easier to work out a plan

Jonathan Clay wrote:I made two topics in the congress debate area (so it can be voted on if necessary) asking for a new general and supply officers.

When we have a clear idea who's available it might be easier to work out a plan

Thank you Jonathan